D&D 4E What would you want to see in 4e?

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Okay, it's a given that 4th edition will be produced. Although the exact year is up for speculation depending on who you talk to, the fact remains that it will be coming out.

PROVE it.

So what do you want to see incorporated into 4e rules?

Insufficient relevance for a meaningful response.

 

[glass]

So... wow. Everybody wants 4.0 to be their homebrew.

No. If I had the time and talent to homebrew these things for myself, I wouldn't need WotC to do it!


glass.

 

[Kanegrundar]

No. If I had the time and talent to homebrew these things for myself, I wouldn't need WotC to do it!


glass.

Same here. All I want from WotC anymore are some gap-filling products and products that stretch what the D20 system can do. The 3rd party market does the whole innovation thing a lot better, but WotC comes out with some good ideas upon occasion these days. (I can't wait to see what Magic of Incarnum has in it.)

Kane

 

[Belen]

I don't see how it is more complicated or requires more work. And as for 'more gamist', how is that an insult? Especially in the context of D&D, the quintessential gamist RPG.

EDIT: And those who would prefer a DR/soak based system obviously don't agree that 'AC works fine'. It uses up some of my supply of SoD that I'd rather save for giants and dragons and spells.

Armor as DR requires more resource management and more record keeping. It takes away from the game. I am sure a lot of people like it, but there are optional rules for Armor as DR or they can go play another game.

Combat is complicated enough without added more complexity and number crunching into the mix. DR means that a lot more hits will land, but they will not be as hard. It also adds a lot more die rolling.

Bleh! The only people who I ever heard complain about the AC system are the hard core gamers who are really into "systems."

 

[glass]

I hope you'll forgive me for quoting you slightly out of order...

Armor as DR requires more resource management and more record keeping. It takes away from the game.

People keep saying it requires more record keeping. How? AFAICT, it requires exactly no record keeping over and above what AC requires.

EDIT: Actually, not 'people'; just you BelenUmeria. Checking back I see the post you quoted was my response to one of your posts. Interesting how you ignored the queries you quoted and just restated your (IMO unsupportable) position.

Combat is complicated enough without added more complexity and number crunching into the mix. DR means that a lot more hits will land, but they will not be as hard. It also adds a lot more die rolling.

It adds at most one die roll too the mix, and as IH playtesting has (apparently) shown, one with negligable handling time.

In any case, this is a new edition we are talking about. We can make other changes to compensate.

I am sure a lot of people like it, but there are optional rules for Armor as DR or they can go play another game.

I don't want to play another game*, I want to play D&D, but I'd like to play it with a few changes that would make it (for me) a better game. And the DR rules in UA don't work very well, because they were not integrated into the system from the start. For dmage-reducing armour to be done properly, it really requires a new edition, hence my mentioning it in this thread!



glass.

* Actually I am quite happy to play other games. That doesn't mean I don't want to play D&D, and make sugestions about how it could be improved.

 

[glass]

Bleh! The only people who I ever heard complain about the AC system are the hard core gamers who are really into "systems."

So, the only people who express an opinion about how the system works are those who spend time thinking about how the system works? And in other news, water is wet!


glass.

 

[glass]

Actually the whole CR/EL/ECL/Situational Modifier/High or Low Magic question was solved years ago, you will find the solution in the Grim Tales book by Bad Axe Games.

From what I have read, I get the impression that the Grim Tales system (unlike the core rules) requires the assumption that abilities are equally usefull to PCs and NPCs. Is this the case, and if so, how do you justify it?


glass.

 

[Belen]

EDIT: Actually, not 'people'; just you BelenUmeria. Checking back I see the post you quoted was my response to one of your posts. Interesting how you ignored the queries you quoted and just restated your (IMO unsupportable) position.

Actually, it is supportable. Any GM who has run monsters with DR or had barbarian PCs or adamantine armor in the game can easily see that it requires more recordkeeping. There is enough to remember in the game without having to remember that one player's attacks require full damage, while you knock 10 points off another's.

There have been way too many times when a player has forgotten their own DR. This occurs with multiple players across a variety of groups and age spectrums. I see this all the time as I run quite a few demos for Wizards.

Attack versus AC/difficulty class is a simple method. You either hit and do damage or miss. If you use armor as DR, you usually hit, but then have to add and subtract on the fly. If you are fighting or running multiple enemies, then it is a pain in the arse. Your experience may differ, but mine has shown that DR is a tricky rule that requires a lot more work and leads to slow combats. It may be great for groups that have every t crossed or i dotted, but for people out to have a bit of fun, it is more complicated than it needs to be.

I do find it funny that you refer to IH, which is a heavy resource management game, to support your position.

I do not mind armor as DR as an optional rule, but if they replace AC with it as a core rule, then the game will suffer for it. People are not computers. They should not have to keep track of dozens of effects and rules during a combat. It just makes the combats more about the dice and the character build rather than an RPG.

 

[StupidSmurf]

The only thing I genuinely want to see in 4E is a title page that says "First Printing: August 2010."

 

[sinmissing]

DR takes more record keeping because you must remember each combatant's DR when reducing damage.

The biggest problem I have with DR (exascerbated by a non-location specific damage system), is that heavily armored combatants quickly become immune to weapons like darts and daggers.