Whatever happened to Sword & Sorcery Cinema?

[Conaill]

Can't help but think that Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser would make for an excellent "buddy" movie though...

 

[ssampier]

Can't help but think that Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser would make for an excellent "buddy" movie though...

I'm not very familiar with Leiber, but this is what I like:

You have the "love" angle of the various women that Fafrd and Grey Mouser bed and fall in love with (T&A for the shallow men, myself included)
Hack-n-slash with beasties/pirates/other things

What book do you think would make the best movie?

 

[Conaill]

Heh - it's been ages since I've read them myself, but I found out that Wizards actually has a pretty good writeup of them:

Classics of Fantasy: Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd & the Gray Mouser Series

Leiber was a major influence on the creation of D&D (he even contributed some pieces to The Dragon), and it's no surprise to find many elements of the series found their way into the game. The D&D magic system may derive from Vance, the player character races and whole concept of an adventuring party (characters with vastly different skills working together as a team) from Tolkien, but what heroes actually DO in a typical D&D game is pure Leiber: fighting, sneaking, purloining, exploring, and trying to get out alive when a plan goes bad. In fact, the closest thing Leiber has to an heir for his literary legacy are the D&D novel lines, who have thoroughly assimilated his influence and carry on the sword and sorcery tradition more closely than anyone else writing today.

 

[David Howery]

Why don't they make S&S movies anymore? Well, the first Conan was the best of them... and that's appalling. CtB had fairly good action, but Milius went nuts on the whole 'boobs and blood' factor... sure, REH put those in a lot, but Milius still emphasized it too much. Then there was the whole hippie children of Doom thing, which was just... dumb. And yet, the story was actually not bad... too bad it wasn't really about REH's Conan.. I just assume it was someone else with the same name. And that was the best movie in the genre. The rest? Deathstalker (1 through... 3? 4?), Red Sonja, The Sword and the Sorcerer, Hawk the Slayer.... with movies like these in the genre, it's not surprising that people stopped making them... they were probably tired of being laughed at...

 

[WayneLigon]

Why don't they make S&S movies anymore?

Historically, they simply haven't done very well. SF movies have made many millions and continue to be done. I can't think of a sword and sorcery fantasy movie since the first Conan until LOTR that did well financially. There were some good ones, but on the whole they didn't do very well. After Willow flopped, they kinda quit trying.

I was hoping LOTR would change that, but we haven't seen even a bad one attempted yet on the big screen until Narnia. It's been four years since Fellowship was a blockbuster smash. We've seen a spate of weak TV mini-series (Earthsea, Hercules, Mists of Avalon) but that's been about it.

It's just one of those things, I guess.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Wow. First time I've ever encountered anybody who DIDN'T like Conan the Barbarian. I can understand not liking Conan the Destroyer, but then again, Milius didn't work on that one.

I loathed the movie. Partly because I apparently read more Howard than the screenwriter.

The Auld Grump

 

[Conaill]

After Willow flopped, they kinda quit trying.

It did?

According to imdb, Willow cost $35 million to make, made $8.3 million in its opening weekend, and grossed $57 million in the US.

Conan the Barbarian cost $20 million, made $9.6 million opening weekend, and grossed $40 million in the US. Conan the Destroyer only grossed $31 million (no budget listed), and Red Sonja made less than $7 million on a budget of $18 million.

Seems to me that Willow didn't do too bad. Not a blockbuster, but definitely profitable...


(Edit: In comparison, the first D&D movie also cost about $35 million to make, and only grossed $15 million in the US. Including worldwide revenues and rentals, they barely broke even. And yet they made a second one...)

 

[WayneLigon]

It did?

According to imdb, Willow cost $35 million to make, made $8.3 million in its opening weekend, and grossed $57 million in the US.

Conan the Barbarian cost $20 million, made $9.6 million opening weekend, and grossed $40 million in the US. Conan the Destroyer only grossed $31 million (no budget listed), and Red Sonja made less than $7 million on a budget of $18 million.

Seems to me that Willow didn't do too bad. Not a blockbuster, but definitely profitable...

I stand corrected; I'd always been told it was a flop thought I think it must be that people were expecting Star Wars box office from it.

Looking at Box Office Mojo's list of live action fantasy, I see I forgot one that actually did really well, as well: The Scorpion King. At a lifetime box office of $91M, not too bad. I'm not sure the figures in their chart are adjusted for inflation. I, myself, didn't think Dragonheart did that well.

 

[Conaill]

Actually, imdb's trivia page for Willow does say:

The box office receipts were less than expected, so writer George Lucas continued Willow's story in books rather than in movie sequels.

If anything, I'm guessing this was probably more a case of irrational expectations than anything else. Ron Howard, George Lucas, ILM and an unusually large budget... guess "merely" doubling their money came as a bit of a letdown for Hollywood. :\

 

[Green Knight]

A shame. That redhead was hot. Wouldn't have minded seeing her again.