D&D General What's Bardier than a Bard?

[Laurefindel]

What's bardier than a bard? Two bards of course!

But more seriously, troubadour fits the archetype of roguish wanderer using singing, music and flair to get by.

Minstrel is too musical instrument-focused, saltinbanque is too acrobatics-focused, jongleur too juggling-focused, and jester to joker-focused (although anyone who attended a medieval-wannabe buffet or night that was MCed by a good jester know that they are much more than jokers - they are the ones keeping the big brutish knights in check by setting the bar for what "foolish" means. Gotta be careful not to look more foolish than the fool!)

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Quick question. (Well, quick to ask, but who knows how lengthy it'll be to resolve.)

If you were going to rename the bard class, what would you call it?

When I run bards and druids, I like to keep them tied to Celtic culture. But the modern fantasy bard archetype — the happy-go-lucky, charming rake who uses both actual magic and sleight-of-hand to pick unwary pockets, and uses music to bolster allies, sooth savage beasts in the vein of Orpheus, and seduce anything with a pulse (or not, if you count undead and constructs) — doesn't quite fit a more historically grounded bard (or skald or scop).

So: if you had to pick a new name for the fantasy archetype that we today call bard, what would be the best fit? Minstrel? Jester? Jongleur? Troubadour? Busker? Gleeman? Mountebank? Suggestions I haven't thought of? What even is this musical trickster-mage factotum in a world where D&D never came along to invent it?

Jack. That's the actual archetype at play, here, IMO, and it's a perfectly good name.


I would then use the name Bard for a class more inspired by the Irish Fili, but something with a greater relation to the Druids also makes sense.

 

[Richards]

How about Troubardour? That's got a bard embedded right in the middle of it!

Johnathan

 

[Remathilis]

I'd say Minstrel, but I am reminded about an old not-grandma-friendly joke about a bard owning a bicycle (their minstrel cycle).

TO be fair, many of them would be jesters or Shakespearan fools, but that isn't the kind of name isn't going to endear them for play either. I guess troubadour feels the most fantasy.

 

[Lidgar]

Deadhead?

 

[Guest 7034872]

Deadhead?

Keep on truckin'.

 

[DemoMonkey]

"Bard" is a surprisingly controversial term. I think we should replace it with something that unites people instead of dividing them.

That's why my vote is for "Warlord".

 

[AverageMojito]

The 5e Bard really is a bard, like Taliesin and Merlin are.

Really? I remember from The Mists of Avalon Merlin (a title) to be a druid first, a sage second, and a minstrel third. I have an impression 1e (?) Bard was trying to emulate that, with all those levels in fighter, thief, and druid before going bard. I never played 1e, though, that's just an impression from reading the PHB a few times a long time ago.

The class abandoned any druidic roots it might've had starting with 2e (my first edition). They kept its loremaster legacy, though. I suppose if we remove the druidic aspect of the Merlin, the 5E Bard is enough of a loremaster and minstrel to play a Merlin-like character. Good catch.

 

[Bacon Bits]

What's Bardier than a Bard?

Oh! Oh! A bard wearing horse armor that has been crafted out of bacon?

So: if you had to pick a new name for the fantasy archetype that we today call bard, what would be the best fit? Minstrel? Jester? Jongleur? Troubadour? Busker? Gleeman? Mountebank? Suggestions I haven't thought of? What even is this musical trickster-mage factotum in a world where D&D never came along to invent it?

If you wanted to rip out the musical/performance aspect, I'd say a dilettante or jack.

I'd call a non-Celtic bard a troubadour or minstrel.

I would avoid jester or the like because I don't want my players using the class name to act like a jerk, and clowns can very easily be jerks.

 

[Jack Daniel]

Troubadour was my first, knee-jerk...

but reading your description of what it is you're actually what a name for... "muscial," "trickster," "picking pockets," "influencing/bolstering/seducing"...

I think what you're really looking for is "Jester."

Though that does conjure the image of needing to be assigned to a particular throne-room/liege/patron to whom your talents are all dedicated...and that doesn't really work for a roving adventurer game.

So, I think, maybe it is as simple and generic as "Trickster" is really what you want.

Then, you can make the subclasses things like "Jester" (more inspire by jokes/confound by riddles/acrobat-y dodger/combatant trickster), "Troubadour" (more music-y/bolstery/seduction trickster), annnnd...hm... "Mountebank" (more illusion magic/sleight of hand-y/confusion trickster)...

Yeah, I think that works.

"Trickster" is a bit too generic, I think. But "jester" has at least two really good things going for it: it's close enough in meaning to "minstrel" to convey almost the same idea (but more adventurous-sounding, and without the unfortunate implications attached to the term in the 19th century); and it already has a functional character class which is mechanically very similar to the 2e-style bard archetype that I'm trying to preserve here (first appearing in Dragon #3 and then revised in Dragon #60).

My aim in starting this topic — to perhaps make matters a little clearer — is that I'm designing a class system that will have both a 2e-style "magical thieving street-entertainer" bard (in the vein of the 2e class) and a "druidic warrior-poet" bard (perhaps most directly inspired by the Castles & Crusades version of the class, which is a straight-up warrior-type with d10 hit dice and the full attack bonus, but no thieving or magic at all). While most gamers might be inclined to continue calling the former archetype "bard" and the latter "warlord," I'm not going to do that, because to me, a bard is a very Celtic and warlike archetype. A proper bard class IMO should evoke "The Minstrel Boy" more than Jaskier — but that leaves me needing a name for the Jaskier archetype, and "jester" is pretty damn good for that.

….. I think this thread should have a trigger warning.

Synonyms for Bard? This can really scar people.

You stay out of this.

I'd call it the Snarf Zagyg class.

Only if I were running a ThunderCats campaign.

I would avoid jester or the like because I don't want my players using the class name to act like a jerk, and clowns can very easily be jerks.

You know, I don't think I mind that. The jester is a fairly well-defined fantasy archetype, and its whole shtick is being annoying via speaking truth to power or otherwise being more competent than first appearances would suggest, which is kind of great. And players, frankly, relish the opportunity to be jerks to deserving NPCs…