What's better than d20?

[sfgiants]

I know, I know a question to certainly start some flames...but the real reason I posted this was in response to the many complaints I have heard about d20. I love d20 and really don't find many systems I want to go back to. I am curious as to what systems people like better and why (maybe I can be converted, at least for a little while...). Anyways, here are my few systems I have played and why d20 is better (in my humble opinion of course).

1)Rifts/Palladium: I have a ton o' books and played for years. Now I just can't go back. Reasons: stats are meaningless, firearm combat is useless, no defined movement rates etc, percent skills that can't be untrained (ie. no you can't swim at all, no skill), and certain skills everyone takes (ie boxing for the extra attack)

2)Call of Cthulhu (BRP version): Good, but mostly a mood based system (mood and ambience play a big role). Reasons: dodge is a monster skill, combat is strange to run (Note: I still enjoy this game a lot, but like d20 CoC just a little better...)

3)MERP/Rolemaster: played for a while...ouch Reasons: too many charts, focused on minutae in many cases, a weapon's damage always depended on the roll, and cross reference chart etc, just too much work...

4)Marvel Super Heroes: First rpg ever played by me. Reasons: Spotty on details, assumed only one playing style (heroic), and deemphasized the use of weapons (even in comics Spider-man avoids getting shot-guns are dangerous, in the game guns are weak as heck)

5)Ad+d: A stand by. Reasons: skills are poorly done, classes are bland, balance maintained by different xp charts etc. I could go on.

6)Twilight 2000: a fun diversion, but...Reasons: far too precise (fire a machinegun, roll 10 d6, 6's hit, have fun, 10 minutes later combat is still slowly going...)

ok, I am sure there are disagreements, but the real question is: what games do you still play that are better than d20 (in your opinion of course)?

Ps: Play nice

 

[Tsyr]

BESM. It's fast. It's flexible. It's fun. It's flexible. It's simple to learn. It's flexible. Everything you need is in one 200 page trade paperback. It's flexible. The people who put BESM out care for the game and support it constantly. Did I mention it's flexible?

Don't get me wrong. I still play D20 more. But if someone came up to me and said "You are going to be stranded on a desert island with a bunch of your friends. What game would you take?" I would pick BESM. Because there is basicly nothing you can't do with BESM.

 

[Oogar]

Love. It's been a while, but I remember being very fond of the feeling in the past.

 

[Oogar]

Food, I still get that. And most days I would vote food above d20. Not every day mind you, but most days

 

[Ravellion]

Shadowrun 3e. I like the d6s, I like the break with cyberpunk (the magic and mutations of humans becoming elves and dwarves etc), although it also seems to be somewhat a "mood game" as you call it. Really though, I can't find fault with the main rulebook mechanics at all, while there is a myriad of options in character creation and cyberwear. Perhaps not a game I would play with first-time roleplayers though... so perhaps a bit too complex.

Rav

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

Depending on what you want, GURPS. If you don't want your PCs to be eventually able to wade through whole armies of enemies, then GURPS is just what you need.

 

[howandwhy99]

Yikes! This is a flame starter.

Are you talking about mechanics?

If so, for generic-based systems like GURPS, Rolemaster, even D6, I'd stay with D20 if and when a good supplement is out.

If you mean setting, then I'd say that some games just need to have their own rule sets (whether they're good or bad).

For example, D20 Cthulhu needed major overhauling to get it to play like the original. I think they did an excellent job, but the original manged to stay around for years.

One of my favorites is Paranoia. I'd love to see that game be transfered to the D20 system, but again, a major overhaul to D20 would be needed. These games just play differently than D&D and if you walk into Paranoia thinking you like a D&D player, you will go through 6 lives, quite fast.

A couple of other games like these are: BESM (mentioned above), Feng Shui (THE phenomenal feat game), and Champions (the Super Hero Game)

If you mean what's another fun system with well-designed mechangics, then I'd look at either White Wolf's World of Darkness games or Ars Magicka by one of the same designers.

Ars Magicka IMHO may have been the best system on the market before D20. (I wouldn't try and that judge now) The world and the mechanics work very fluidly together. Multiple *types* of characters are made. The game itself allows for a great deal of flexibilty, but I wouldn't presume to take it away from it's basic level. (One powerful Magi travelling with his weaker PC troupe). In short, it doesn't really need D20.

If you mean games that aren't just tabletop, then I'd say try everthing from your local LARP, to Settlers of Cataan, to Robot Wars. I'm still a big fan of SJGames Iluminati. They have many, many NON-collectible card games out that you could easily play with you players if you find yourself with only a couple hours.

And so I don't get flamed on these: Please remember that all of the above is IMHO.

PS: does anyone have a link to a sales site that shows award-winning games regardless of genre?

 

[gamecat]

AFAIK, D20 is the best, with shadowrun 3 an EXCELLENT close second.

If you hate "mood games", destroy ALL WHITE WOLF products in a 500-mile radius. NOW.

IMHO Certificate attached.

 

[Fenes 2]

For modern game settings Shadowrun 3E, imho, beats d20 hands down.

 

[gamecat]

Amen, Fenes.