What's happening with 3e?? Open Design, Necromancer Games, Sinister Adventures, Monte

[Alzrius]

Our intention is to bundle Complete Control and Complete Gear into a single physical book come Spring.

So the author of those books has scrapped plans for a Complete Race book also?

 

[haakon1]

I really wish people would do 3.5 material instead of pathfinder, myself. I find the "powered up" tone of pathfinder just too much, myself. I can use the adventures (if I tone them down a bit), but all the classes, prestige classes, and even the monsters, are too much for me to add to my 3.5 campaign world.

Anyway, one lone cry for "more 3.5e".

I agree. Some Paizo stuff -- the Shackled City, Age of Worms, Rise of the Runelords, and many standalone modules like Tower of the Last Baron and Conquest of Bloodsworn Vale -- had a good tone and interesting plot (until you get to the high level stuff, which in my view is usually lameness no matter who is writing it -- let me guess, fight REALLY EVIL big bad guy demons to save the world?).

But lately, they seem to have gone for more "exotic" fare that's harder to fit into a straight down the middle campaign. I'm thinking quasi-medieval European (e.g., Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms), temperate climate, not at sea, not Arabian Knights desert, not pure urban adventure . . .

So basically, I'll find a way to live with the rules being Pathfinder instead of 3.5 (likely by ignoring any monster or NPC differences and writing them back to 3.5 as needed, kinda like "converting" 2e to 1e in the olden days), but the tone lately seems a bit off.

So, yesh, if Goodman Games had a no rules or 3/3.5/Pathfinder product, I'd say yee-ha. And if Paizo went back to more of an Erik Mona (or Wolfgang Baur or Bruce Cordell) kinda tone, that'd be fine too.

 

[haakon1]

Pathfinder is not high-powered compared to 3.5 ... so my only real complaint is that the wahoo factor is a little too high.

Yup, wahoo factor too high. That summarizes what I was trying to say!

 

[Angellis_ater]

So the author of those books has scrapped plans for a Complete Race book also?

John is working on Complete Race, but he wasn't sure if he could do it justice. If he could, it will be incorporated into the Complete printbook and both will probably be released at the same time.

So, if possible - yes @ Complete Race being released.

 

[BryonD]

Huh. I didn't think that at all. Possibly with the classes... possibly... but the races were all clearly LA +1 compared to their 3.5 equivalents. Races plus classes combined would create a significant disparity between 3.5 era PCs.

I think my subjective assessment of "significant" is different.

The races are very clearly boosted. I'd quibble on whether or not they are +1 LA, but it is certainly more than it was. And long before PF was ever thought of it was understood that LA races suffered to start with and only suffered more and more as they gained levels. A 1st level +1 LA race running with a group of 2nd level normal races would be fine or even a bit up. But by 6th or 7th level the perks of the race were being way outshined by the perks of the extra class level. There were all kinds of buy-off systems floating around as ways to fix this flaw.

So if you put a party of 1st level PF races against a party of 1st level 3.5 core races, the PF party will probably have a small but very real advantage. I wouldn't call it dominant. But maybe something on the order of expected to win out 11 or 12 times out of 20, everything else being equal.

Bump them up to 5th level and the advantage is gone.
They get a small boost at low levels exactly when they needed the boost and it fades away quickly.

As to classes, some classes got a boost. The bard for example. While the druid is still at the top of the scale, I'd say the PF druid has been pulled down a notch compared to 3.5.

It is too early on for me to be completely certain, but I'd say that my actual experience to date is that the span between the weakest and strongest characters is less than it was in 3.5 and that the same challenges I was throwing at 3.5 parties have the same kinds of outcomes.

I will agree that "waahoo" is a bit higher. Fighters have more depth, sorcerer bloodlines are cool, wizard specialties are more developed, etc... But I personally like these things. If I'm gonna play a low magic, swords and sorcery, Grim Tales game then, no, it doesn't need this. But 3X has always been a flashy fantasy game for me anyway.

If you want a bit more subdued game, PF has taken things a step further away from that. That is a very fair position.

 

[BryonD]

I think it may be even better to look at races the other way around.
I'll still agree that 1st level PF chars would have a small edge on 1st level 3.5 chars.
But if PF is LA+1 then 1st level PF chars should be a solid match against 2nd level 3.5 chars. And, given that the claim is also that PF classes are also buffed, then the 1st level PF chars should easily dominate 2nd level 3.5 chars.
I'm very confident that 2nd level 3.5 chars would, to the contrary, dominate an otherwise comparable group of 1st level PF chars.

The races a turned up a notch, though less than +1 LA.
The classes are tweaked and more even.
The overall increase in power is quite minimal.

 

[Votan]

The races a turned up a notch, though less than +1 LA.
The classes are tweaked and more even.
The overall increase in power is quite minimal.

I suspect that this was a deliberate design decision to make PF compatible with late 3.5. One of the issues when you keep adding options is that some options will be better than others. Adding enough eventually creates some degree of power creep. In order to make PF base races and classes equivalent to late 3.5, this power creep had to be addressed.

I think that they did a decent job, given these constraints.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

pathfinder

I think it depends on the class. A beguiler, 3.5 druid, or Dread Necromancer could easily hold their own in a pathfinder party.

Ken