D&D (2024) What's not going to cost discipline points for the Monk to do now?

[doctorbadwolf]

Pretty sure the designers asked us for feedback and people with platforms get to use it to mobilize their bases toward changes they want. That's not hostility, that's literally what WotC requested.

That’s BS. Wizards didn’t ask for harassment. People with platforms should be responsible with them, and not hurl invective at creators who don’t cater to them specifically with every decision.

 

[Vaalingrade]

That’s BS. Wizards didn’t ask for harassment. People with platforms should be responsible with them, and not hurl invective at creators who don’t cater to them specifically with every decision.

They said they were sending people to participate in the survey in a specific way, not harass.

to wit:

encouraging their followers to spam and abuse the survey results at their beck and whim

 

[doctorbadwolf]

They said they were sending people to participate in the survey in a specific way, not harass.

to wit:

Ah yes “spam and abuse” is definitely fine and good. Get real.

 

[strawbellebelle]

I’ve played and run the game for a lot of monk, rogues, rangers, paladins, and fighters. The Monk burn their limited resource noticeably, frustratingly, faster than the others in actual at the table play.
I don’t us stunning strike that much, but it absolutely isn’t just “theorycrafters” who see it as powerful. An entire round of an enemy not being able to do anything while having advantage on attacks against you is very powerful.

The difference between Monks and two of the classes you mention here is that the Monk regains their points on a short rest.

Let's take the Paladin and Ranger. At Level 2, Paladin has two spell slots. They can use those two spell slots for Divine Smite, which is 2d8 per shot—compared to 1d6+DEX for the Monk's Flurry of Blows. Except they get two uses of that per day, while the Monk regains their uses on short rests, so they might get another two or four uses. (And they still have their Bonus Unarmed Strike on every turn they don't use FoB on.)

Meanwhile, the Fighter also regains resources on a short rest, while the Rogue doesn't have any sort of rest-restored resources (and given Cunning Strike and its reception, people want the Rogue to have zero limitation on potent abilities).

I'm always baffled when I've seen folks insist it's impossible to fit short rests into gameplay, when no group I've played with has ever had a problem with it, nor has it been a thing where players just request for one and then immediately get it whenever needed.

Pretty sure the designers asked us for feedback and people with platforms get to use it to mobilize their bases toward changes they want. That's not hostility, that's literally what WotC requested.

So, say you're a YouTuber with a dedicated following, and even people beyond that following are aware that many take their word as gospel when it comes to the game. Imagine they express outrage towards a revision of a class not being what they want it to be, to the point that they openly call for their followers and viewers of their video to give responses to the survey video echoing the ones expressed by said YouTuber—even to the point of encouraging people to straight-up copy and paste their words, without giving any thought or opinion of their own.

Do you not believe that kind of nonsense would taint the results of the survey?

And do you believe that the average player of the game, the sort of person who enjoys the game with friends and doesn't spend time mulling over what the most broken/powerful setups might be, would be someone who invests their time in watching such videos? Or would it only be a small demographic of the total playerbase?

 

[Vaalingrade]

Ah yes “spam and abuse” is definitely fine and good. Get real.

That's editorializing.

spam and abuse here being 'use'.

 

[Vaalingrade]

So, say you're a YouTuber with a dedicated following, and even people beyond that following are aware that many take their word as gospel when it comes to the game. Imagine they express outrage towards a revision of a class not being what they want it to be, to the point that they openly call for their followers and viewers of their video to give responses to the survey video echoing the ones expressed by said YouTuber—even to the point of encouraging people to straight-up copy and paste their words, without giving any thought or opinion of their own.

Voting.

You're describing the process of voting.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That's editorializing.

spam and abuse here being 'use'.

The creator I’ve seen do this literally suggest spamming the survey. Like, taking it over and over again.

 

[Vaalingrade]

The creator I’ve seen do this literally suggest spamming the survey. Like, taking it over and over again.

I haven't seen that and agree that would be wrong. But look at their most recent response: that's not what they're talking about in this discussion. It might become that now that we've said it wasn't as of posting.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The difference between Monks and two of the classes you mention here is that the Monk regains their points on a short rest.

Let's take the Paladin and Ranger. At Level 2, Paladin has two spell slots. They can use those two spell slots for Divine Smite, which is 2d8 per shot—compared to 1d6+DEX for the Monk's Flurry of Blows. Except they get two uses of that per day, while the Monk regains their uses on short rests, so they might get another two or four uses. (And they still have their Bonus Unarmed Strike on every turn they don't use FoB on.)

Meanwhile, the Fighter also regains resources on a short rest, while the Rogue doesn't have any sort of rest-restored resources (and given Cunning Strike and its reception, people want the Rogue to have zero limitation on potent abilities).

The rogue isn’t exactly a top tier class. It isn’t going to trivialize encounters or make other PCs feel unnecessary by using cunning strike, which literally has a cost, it just isn’t a limited use resource.

I'm always baffled when I've seen folks insist it's impossible to fit short rests into gameplay, when no group I've played with has ever had a problem with it, nor has it been a thing where players just request for one and then immediately get it whenever needed.

Okay? So you…don’t take seriously any experience that doesn’t match your own?

 

[strawbellebelle]

Okay? So you…don’t take seriously any experience that doesn’t match your own?

If the game is balanced around certain mechanics, and some groups/DMs refuse to utilize those mechanics, then of course it's going to affect the balance between different classes depending on how they interact with said mechanics.

If you run just two or three encounters a day, with no short rest, of course the Monk is going to feel weaker because the other classes are not required to ration their resources to the degree they're expected to. If all of your encounters fit within a twenty-minute span, of course the Barbarian is going to feel more powerful than other classes. If your encounters are entirely combat-based, with no social interaction or exploration, the Rogue will feel lackluster.