What's the best sourcebook for ships/swashbuckling/pirates?

I would have to say that nobody REALLY has the perfect seafaring book out yet, as Kenjib sez, each has their own particular strong points.

I have Broadsides (I drew the guy coming down the sail to thump the orc for them :D ) and Swashbuckling adventures, and I'd like to get the other two.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

kenjib said:
Broadsides: Realism -- especially if anyone in your group knows about sailing (it's the only book that accounts for wind in combat, for example -- other books have movement mechanics more suited to spacecraft than sea ships)
I've heard the Seafarer's Handbook has pretty good rules for ship to ship combat and ship building. Could the broadside rules for wind be adapted or do you think there is a way to incorporate such a mechanic into the Seafarer rules?

Also, do any of these books give clear indications on ship technology and timelines? Such information on the net is scattered and vague. I've found that most campaign worlds seem to mix technology up a lot like putting in schooners and cutters which, IIRC, are 18th century technology in a 15th century equivalent setting.

Most swashbuckling campaigns would probably be set in the equivalent of 18th-19th centuries however gunpowder was in widespread use by the 16th century so there is a wide variety possible in ship technology and warfare for such campaigns.

So far, the best resource I've been able to find to determine ship technology is the following site but even this only gives two broad categories to distinguish from: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/6423/Ships/index2.html
 

Hrm, I just had a flick through Fantasy Flights Seafarer's Handbook and have to say I'm grossly disappointed. The ship construction rules are absurdly inaccurate (though the system itself seems sound). What's more is they limit hull constructions to 12th century equivalents and yet give ships 19th century advancements. It's patently absurd and can't account for a tenth of the ship technology throughout history let alone what's capable in a fantasy campaign centred around adventure on the high seas.

DId you say that 'Broadsides' had ship construction rules or just ship to ship battle rules? Are there any alternatives for ship building? If not, I would say that the door is wide open to anyone who wishes to create some sensible and more accurate rules.
 

Fourecks said:

I've heard the Seafarer's Handbook has pretty good rules for ship to ship combat and ship building. Could the broadside rules for wind be adapted or do you think there is a way to incorporate such a mechanic into the Seafarer rules?

The broadside ship navigation and attack rules are pretty all-encompassing (with the exception of a mass combat system for the crew after boarding, although grappling and boarding are covered), covering everything from navigation along prevailing wind currents to tactical maneuvering during a battle. I don't have Seafarer's (I've looked through it several times) so I don't know how well they would merge. I would guess that they wouldn't work together all too well in this one area, as they each use different stat block mechanics for ships, which reverberates throughout the system. For example, does Seafarer's Handbook differentiate lateen versus square sails, and the trade offs it entails?

Fourecks said:

Also, do any of these books give clear indications on ship technology and timelines? Such information on the net is scattered and vague. I've found that most campaign worlds seem to mix technology up a lot like putting in schooners and cutters which, IIRC, are 18th century technology in a 15th century equivalent setting.

It seems like period accuracy was one of the design fundamentals of Broadsides. The ships are divided roughly by era, which allows you to decide how advanced you want the ships to be:

long ship
galley
early merchant ships
carrack era
galleon era
small ships

I thought that was pretty handy. The book does not go as recent as schooners, cutters, and the like though, as it does not progress past the galleon era. The biggest ship is the Royal Galleon at 200' and 4 guns fore, 12 aft, and 52 per side. I think that covers you roughly up to and through the 17th century. Is that right?

Broadsides doesn't have ship building rules. The authors claim that generic ship building rules can't be made while still maintaining historical accuracy. After thinking about it, I have yet to see anything in other books to make me disagree with them. There are tools, however, for making modified ships based off of the existing ships.

If these kinds of things are important to you, I think you should take a look at Broadsides. The other books are probably better if you want a more loose, quick, rules-lite, and/or high fantasy approach to ships though.

By the way, I found some more ship history reference here:

http://seventhsea.itgo.com/7thsea/racks/shiphistory.pdf
 

Thanks. It sounds like 'Broadsides' is the book for me. I would rather have lots of accurate information that I can sift through, alter and pick and choose from than a scattering of inaccurate information that I have to fix.

The other one, Seas of Blood, looks a bit... tacky and they use templates for ships... sheesh.
 

To be honest, GURPS vehicles is a great book for creating vehicles, including sailing ships. I guess it can fairly cover anything you might want to make. It can also make Orcish War wagons, siege towers, etc.

Of course, it's GURPS, and not D20, but really a vehicle is a vehicle. The real world stuff should translate pretty well. Once you start adding magical stuff, I can't vouch for it, but that may be where Stronghold Builder's Guide can help out.
 

Fourecks said:
Thanks. It sounds like 'Broadsides' is the book for me. I would rather have lots of accurate information that I can sift through, alter and pick and choose from than a scattering of inaccurate information that I have to fix.

The other one, Seas of Blood, looks a bit... tacky and they use templates for ships... sheesh.

Why sheesh for ship templates ? I personally found it an excellent idea, allowing to create easily staple of fantasy like ghost ships or flying ships (the template are very lite, just one or two adde/modified traits).

The ships, however, don't try to be exceedingly historically accurate, as the designers felt nautical technologies would have naught to compare to our owns in a world with magic and fantasy races like dwarves or hobgoblins. So, I understand some ships may very well be too tacky for some campaigns (especially the larger warships).

I also found out the upkeep cost formulae to be unusable (too cheap for large ships, too expensive for small ones) and have modified it.

I've had the chance to glimpse at the Seafarer's handbook, which seemed interesting but I prefered the combat system of Mongoose, that allowed the PCs to have a great influence on the outcome of the battle. I've never seen Broadside, that furthermore came long after Seas of Blood (and thus, after I ordered my copy).
 

Which books contain the most decent deck plans for ships? I am looking for deck plans of all sizes without getting to the absurd 12 ballistae ships that I see in some of the supplements.
 

A fourth choice

I own all three books (SF, SoB, & BS) and I'm not 100% happy with any of them. Broadsides is currently my favorite although the use of hexes and the lack of any building rules or deck plans are huge marks against it. Plus its poorly organized.

Some guy has a web-page with ship rules. Its here ...

http://www.catspawcomics.com/sept/sept.html

Its at least as good as any of the three published books (at least he understands Hull Speed and Points of Sail). Its certainly worth checking out.


Aaron
 
Last edited:


Remove ads

Top