What's the big deal about gnomes not being in the PHB? **Edited for adversarial tone*

[MichaelSomething]

of D&D, gnomes are generally jokes (David the Gnome, Travelocity's gnome, garden gnomes, etc), and aren't a strong, heroic (or anti-heroic) icon like the elf or dwarf is.

David the Gnome is no joke! HE IS NO JOKE!

 

[The Little Raven]

More people played gnomes pre-3.X than post.

Done market research, have you?

Gnomes and gnome-like beings have played roles as magical tricksters of some potency and anti-heroes at least as often as Elves have in opera and various cultural legends. In fact, depending upon the region and the translator, the words "Goblin," "Gnome," "Elf" and "Dwarf" have been used interchangeably, usually under a general heading of "Fey." (In some legends, Elves are smaller than birds...how heroic is that?)

So... you're saying that gnomes aren't distinct, since they're interchangeable with elves and dwarves from old mythology and folklore? What makes them suitable for inclusion over anyone else if every single niche they filled in other sources is already filled by a stronger contender for that position?

Germanic folklore's Rübezahl is the Lord of the Underworld- he was sometimes referred to as a mountain gnome. According to some traditions, the gnome king is called Gob.

Which are just like dwarves, so unless you're saying the gnome should kill the dwarf and take his stuff, the gnome loses this fight.

The Nome King is the principle BBEG in Frank Baum's Oz series.

And acts nothing like gnomes depicted in other sources, except those sources that make gnomes nearly identical to D&D dwarves... so again, you have the issue of dwarves being a stronger contender for that depiction.

And in modern fiction, The Shanarra books feature Gnomes as one of the principle evil races, similar to D&D Goblins.

Meaning... what? Gnomes should kill goblins and take their role? I don't think so.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Germanic folklore's Rübezahl is the Lord of the Underworld- he was sometimes referred to as a mountain gnome. According to some traditions, the gnome king is called Gob.

The Nome King is the principle BBEG in Frank Baum's Oz series.

And in modern fiction, The Shanarra books feature Gnomes as one of the principle evil races, similar to D&D Goblins.

Sounds perfect for a Monster Manual entry.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Yep, I'm with ya WD. I have a player in my group that is a GNOME DRUID...I have one phrase for you - "Flame Strike from nowhere". Being able to move from place to place at well beyond their normal movement as a flying or crawling creature, transforming and casting can ruin a monsters whole concept of life. And mind you, the entire time, this little bugger is a small or tiny creature regardless of what for its in, and if someone closes, he transforms into a black bear and slugs it out like a fighter....nasty, simply freakin' nasty.

But how much would the character differ if he'd was a halfling?

But just as a side note (even if only as an anecdote, no proof or anything):
We never had a Tiefling PC in our campaigns. I think we had only one Gnome (in a Dragonstar campaign). And I think we had a Swirneblin Paladin in a high level Forgotten Realms campaign. We had a few halflings.

Having read the Races & Classes book now (arrived yesterday - it's as if it was Christmas!), I'd say I am interested in them. The fluff is interesting, I like the artwork (even though I don't believe that anyone could mistake Tiefling that easily for a human with the big horns and tail in the pictures).

A important question is:
If the designers in 3.x have failed to make something interesting out of Gnomes, do you really expect them to get better in 4E? Maybe it's really better that they decided that their gnome ideas don't work so well and that they wait until they have found something good.

Maybe we should really all sit together and make a brainstorming session:
At a later point, we have to decide which of the ideas don't collide with the existing core (4E) races, and which of them fit into the core "pseudo-medieval fantasy" setting of D&D.

How should gnomes look like?
What's the gnome culture? Where do they live? What do they do? What's their story?

 

[Rel]

I kinda like Gnomes, though I don't feel like their inclusion in the PHB is any kind of "make or break" for 4e. But I DO think that Danny makes a good point about them being delegitimized by being put in the MM.

It's not that DM's are inflexible. But you have to make a call about that. And when you let one player play a Gnome then another may want to play a Centaur or a Dryad or a Kobold. And if you grant the first player's wish but not the other two, do you appear to be playing favorites?

I think that Gnomes getting the boot from the PHB definately marginalizes them. Whether that is important or not is another question entirely.

 

[I'm A Banana]

icon like the elf or dwarf is.

I think you're mistaken.

I mean, outside of D&D, elves get the great honor of baking cookies (Keebler), working on toys (Santa's), and being comic relief (Dobby the House-Elf from the HP series).

HARDLY iconic of anything other than "little faerie people." Gnomes at least have a pretty strong "nature" vein running through them with their place in gardens and David the Gnome (WHO IS NO JOKE), and a little bit of wanderlust with the Travelocity gnome. Those are much more heroic icons than "bakes cookies, makes toys, and beats itself."

I think when most people think dwarves they think like Verne Troyer. Who, at least in WoW, is a mage!

If you're making an argument from pop culture, pretty much all "fairy people" blend together in a sort of unholy mishmash, which, oddly enough, is probably MORE mythologically accurate than anything D&D could give us, with it's nicely defined "silos."

 

[Rel]

It just occurred to me that the exclusion of Gnomes does introduce a minor hiccup into the "They are making 4e just like WoW!!" notion.

 

[Lurks-no-More]

I think you're mistaken.

I mean, outside of D&D, elves get the great honor of baking cookies (Keebler), working on toys (Santa's), and being comic relief (Dobby the House-Elf from the HP series).

Outside of D&D, elves also appear as the beautiful, magically powerful, ethereal and/or woodsy people in the LotR movies. How many people saw those, again?

HARDLY iconic of anything other than "little faerie people." Gnomes at least have a pretty strong "nature" vein running through them with their place in gardens and David the Gnome (WHO IS NO JOKE), and a little bit of wanderlust with the Travelocity gnome. Those are much more heroic icons than "bakes cookies, makes toys, and beats itself."

Are you joking, here? I'm not sure...

 

[Wolfspider]

Outside of D&D, elves also appear as the beautiful, magically powerful, ethereal and/or woodsy people in the LotR movies. How many people saw those, again?

As I've said before, although the Lord of the Rings movies are very popular indeed, the Sindar and Noldor are more than likely not what most people think of when they hear the word "elf." Thus, they are not "iconic." The iconic elf, in my opinion, is Santa's elf, followed closely by the Keebler dudes.

Heck, just do a Google image search of the word "elf" and you will see what I mean.

There is much more of this type of image:

than there is of this kind:

 

[Aeolius]

It just occurred to me that the exclusion of Gnomes does introduce a minor hiccup into the "They are making 4e just like WoW!!" notion.

Not if you run a campaign such as mine, which excludes core races as options for PCs. However, the 4e MM should have player character options for sea elves, locathah, and merfolk as a bare minimum, for me to sign on.