What's the big deal about gnomes not being in the PHB? **Edited for adversarial tone*

[Gundark]

Edit: My apologies for the initial Adversarial tone of this thread. My wife was rushing me out the door to do Christmas shopping at the mall (and I really HATE the mall this time of year). To be honest I was annoyed with my wife (and her with me), and I think it came out in my post. Thus I didn’t have time to check the tone of the post before posting. I honestly didn’t mean any malice.

My purpose was to discuss the difference between putting a race in the PHB vs. putting a race in the MM. It was my understanding that the Gnome in the MM will be set up to be usable as a PC race. Thus since the books are being released at the same time there is no wait (I could understand some people’s concern about not being able to play a Barbarian right away for example). Some people seem quite upset by this decision. I myself was hoping that Warforged or Shifters would be in the PHB. However since they are in the MM they could be used as a Player race IMC.

Again sorry for my adversarial tone, it was unintended.

 

[Piratecat]

This comes across as pretty high-handed, although I'm sure you didn't mean it that way. The "hub-bub" is that PH races can be used right out of the box, and have special attention and detail lavished on them. MM races need special DM approval in most campaigns. I'm not a big fan of the gnome, but I certainly understand why some people don't care for the change.

Think of it this way. If they removed humans, elves and dwarves off to the MM, and added kender (please don't say the obvious joke), flumph and bullywugs to the PH, wouldn't that affect the feel of the game even though the MM had them anyways?

 

[Insight]

I'd glad the gnomes aren't in the PHB. I don't want anything in the PHB that's not done, well thought out, and balanced against other classes, races, etc. If the designers don't have a good feel for the PC gnome, keep em in the MM for now.

I agree in not seeing the basis for the outcry. I've never known anyone in multiple 3.x gaming groups to play a gnome.

 

[WarlockLord]

Gnomes never really had anything going for 'em. I used them ONCE in a PbP campaign. That's it.

 

[WizarDru]

While I'm not really going to miss having to wait for a more detailed treatment on gnomes later (if at all), I can understand why folks would miss them. For one thing, it's one more hindrance for an edition change. When 3e came out, suddenly we had a whole new class of arcane spellcasters who violated the rules assumptions for how spellcasters worked. In previous editions, a sorceror had been an alternate name for a magic-user...now he was a unique and different class. It provides a barrier to migration of existing games and it changes many of the default assumptions of the game world. Losing the gnome, for some people, is the same issue.

Further, some folks just liked gnomes, and don't like the aspect that WotC is, conceptually, taking material away with a new edition. One tends to expect the old to remain when the new is brought...and the removal of them, especially if it is done to accommodate new races that they don't want, such as the dragonborn, tiefling or eladrin...then that would upset them as well.

I don't consider it a big deal, but I can understand why some folks would be unhappy about it.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I agree in not seeing the basis for the outcry. I've never known anyone in multiple 3.x gaming groups to play a gnome.

The basis is that there are plenty of people whom you have not played with.

My primary player character is a gnome illusionist/bard/gnome paragon -- what he'll look like initially in 4E is a complete mystery to me.

I DM two gnome player characters. Likewise, what's going to happen to them is a matter of genuine concern.

And before anyone sniffs about how worthless gnomes are, do not that there's no comparable outcry over half-orcs, barbarians, bards, druids and possibly sorcerers not being in the PHB. So, yeah, gnomes ARE pretty popular, relatively speaking. People who like them REALLY like them.

 

[WizarDru]

nd before anyone sniffs about how worthless gnomes are, do not that there's no comparable outcry over half-orcs, barbarians, bards, druids and possibly sorcerers not being in the PHB. So, yeah, gnomes ARE pretty popular, relatively speaking. People who like them REALLY like them.

Just curious...do we actually have certification that all of these are out? I know we have educated guesses, but I thought that gnomes were the only ones we KNEW for a fact wouldn't be there, because WotC was blunt about that. I think they are all going to be out until PHB II, but I think there might not be more outcry for some of those because folks aren't certain they're out, yet.

 

[Hejdun]

Another thing to consider is that since races are getting more important in the new edition (new racial traits and racially themed feats, etc), it's very likely that because the gnome is relegated to the MM, he won't get any of that special love that the PHB races are getting, and very possibly could be shafted on flavor and power.

 

[DM_Blake]

No outcry here.

I have never played a PHB gnome. I don't recall being in a group that had a PHB gnome.

However, I have played a svirfneblin once - that 2nd ed. campaign ended with him as a cleric7/assassin6.

I'm currently playing a whisper gnome in a 3.5 campaign. I joined late and the group needed a rogue and I caved to the peer pressure, but I wanted to make him something I hadn't done before. But without the Races of Stone upgrade to a whisper gnome, I would not have chosen a PHB gnome for this class.

Incidentally, I wonder if more whisper gnomes have been created/played since Races of Stone came out than the total number of PHB gnomes throughout the entirety of existence 3.0/3.5? I wouldn't be surprised to find out that whisper gnomes outnumber PHB gnomes, despite the shorter time span since the release of the book.

 

[Lurks-no-More]

Another thing to consider is that since races are getting more important in the new edition (new racial traits and racially themed feats, etc), it's very likely that because the gnome is relegated to the MM, he won't get any of that special love that the PHB races are getting, and very possibly could be shafted on flavor and power.

Actually, I think that's exactly why WotC is leaving them off the first PHB: they haven't yet come up with as good stuff, both flavor- and crunchwise as with the other PHB races, so they get put in MM until the designers get the good stuff.