What's the big deal about gnomes not being in the PHB? **Edited for adversarial tone*

[BASHMAN]

For me I don't mind that they are not in the PhB... but I don't like them being area 51 aliens dressed up as hobbits either...

 

[Core]

Well, they were a staple from 1st edition.
Even before then they were referred too in the old red box set.
Sort of sad to see them go

 

[TerraDave]

And before anyone sniffs about how worthless gnomes are, do not that there's no comparable outcry over half-orcs, barbarians, bards, druids and possibly sorcerers not being in the PHB. So, yeah, gnomes ARE pretty popular, relatively speaking. People who like them REALLY like them.

EXACTLY (and yes, we basically know). Lets just list (and repeat) what isn't getting the attention the "meh" gnomes are:

-Druids
-Barbarians
-Sorcerers
-Monks
-Bards
-Half Orcs
-School based wizard specialist
-Vancian Magic
-9 point alignment
-Skill points and many single skills
-two weapon fighters

And thats not even a full list. Of the things not in PHBI, gnomes are definatly the most controversial.

Which I guess is the point of this thread.

 

[Insight]

No outcry here.

I have never played a PHB gnome. I don't recall being in a group that had a PHB gnome.

However, I have played a svirfneblin once - that 2nd ed. campaign ended with him as a cleric7/assassin6.

I'm currently playing a whisper gnome in a 3.5 campaign. I joined late and the group needed a rogue and I caved to the peer pressure, but I wanted to make him something I hadn't done before. But without the Races of Stone upgrade to a whisper gnome, I would not have chosen a PHB gnome for this class.

Incidentally, I wonder if more whisper gnomes have been created/played since Races of Stone came out than the total number of PHB gnomes throughout the entirety of existence 3.0/3.5? I wouldn't be surprised to find out that whisper gnomes outnumber PHB gnomes, despite the shorter time span since the release of the book.

According to R&C, the whisper gnome was the route the designers would have taken had they added gnomes to the 4e PHB. So for those of you bemoaning the loss of the gnome, if you don't like whisper gnomes, be thankful they aren't in the PHB.

 

[Morrus]

I don't really get the hubbub, either.

WotC have pretty much said "we haven't yet been able to come up with something good for them". So maybe they'll get a good treatment later; far better than a half-assed rushed effort inserted to appease people creating an outcry. In the meantime, there's the MM entry if people are really passionate about their gnomes.

Of course, I'm of the "never saw the point in them" camp, so I may be biased. Certainly, I'd be bothered if elves or dwarves were left out; and I'm personally not fond of the dragonborn - far too campaign-specific and flavour-dictating for my liking. I'd rather have seen the orc.

But that's just my personal taste.

 

[Rechan]

My primary player character is a gnome illusionist/bard/gnome paragon -- what he'll look like initially in 4E is a complete mystery to me.

Probably the same that anyone playing a warmage/elemental savant will look like: he won't have an immediate means to translate that into 4e.

I DM two gnome player characters. Likewise, what's going to happen to them is a matter of genuine concern.

Again, Gnomes in the MM. Written up as PC races.

WotC is not going to just thumb its nose at Eberron players, where Gnomes are made very viable, after WotC put all the time and effort into making Eberron worthwhile.

 

[Insight]

EXACTLY (and yes, we basically know). Lets just list (and repeat) what isn't getting the attention the "meh" gnomes are:


-two weapon fighters

This is a popular misconception. I haven't seen anything in any of the previews or R&C that indicates that TWF is definitely out. What we do know is that iterative attacks are out, so TWF will change in 4E. TWF is most likely a feat/talent chain for Fighters if anything.

 

[Rechan]

EXACTLY (and yes, we basically know). Lets just list (and repeat) what isn't getting the attention the "meh" gnomes are:

-Druids
-School based wizard specialist
-Vancian Magic
-9 point alignment
-two weapon fighters

I would disagree these aren't controversial or no one is causing a ruckus. The loss of Vanacian magic and alignment and Druids has caused some noise, as well as TWF/Finesse.

They're just not being made into their own threads.

 

[Rechan]

Just curious...do we actually have certification that all of these are out? I know we have educated guesses, but I thought that gnomes were the only ones we KNEW for a fact wouldn't be there, because WotC was blunt about that. I think they are all going to be out until PHB II, but I think there might not be more outcry for some of those because folks aren't certain they're out, yet.

From the impression I've gotten, the Sorcerer and barbarian simply just aren't finished, conceptually and rules-wise. The Bard has been confirmed to show up later, that's for sure.

Druids and Barbarians are said, in R&C, to have the same Power Source. So I suspect we'll see them in the same book, one dedicated to that power source.

 

[frankthedm]

Some folks like them
Some folks don't care either way
Some folks dislike them

I dislike them enough to house rule them out of my game.