What's the big deal about gnomes not being in the PHB? **Edited for adversarial tone*

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Is it really necessary to denigrate people because you disagree with their opinions or to decide they're not really upset about a given issue, but are just making up something to be upset about?

This is a pretty crappy way to behave, guys.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

Welcome to the web, where anyone can 'bravely' be an arse.

 

[Rechan]

Welcome to the web

Hey, that's my line!

 

[Falling Icicle]

What's with all the hub-hub about Gnomes? They're in the MM people. Just use them from there....honestly do they need to be in the PHB? We've been told that we can use them as a playable race from that.

MM races (with the notable exception of Drow) never really get much support or material written for them in other supplements. They are always treated as being an unusual (and optional) alternative to the core races, whereas the core races are the center of attention and get all the support (feats, prestige classes, etc).

And I'm rather uncomfortable with them back-shelfing a race that's been a core part of D&D for decades. I'll admit that Gnomes have never been the most popular race, but then, there are plenty of people that hate Elves too, and yet they defy that sentiment by having THREE elven races in 4e, at least two of which will be in the core book. So they double the number of Elf races in the PHB, add in at least two new races, yet they couldn't keep Gnomes?

And look at the recently released write-up for Elves. It was very short. And they certainly found room to add Eladrin, Tieflings and Dragonborn to the PHB. I see no good reason they couldn't have added a whopping 2 pages to the book to include Gnomes and make everyone happy. Or, if anything, Dragonborn should have been a MM race.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I see no good reason they couldn't have added a whopping 2 pages to the book to include Gnomes and make everyone happy. Or, if anything, Dragonborn should have been a MM race.

Maybe they wrote two pages of crap and gave up. I'm not surprised; creative game designers have been failing that task for many editions. The only time I've seen it done well is in Eberron, which had two things:

1) Someone new to WotC; which meant WotC imported gnome flavor rather than doing it themselves.
2) The ECS version still had poor flavor text. It took the Gnomes of Zilargo Dragonshard article to actually make them cool. (I have to wonder how many Eberron fans who don't spend much time online think its gnomes are uncool.)

Just like the setting submission project, maybe they could have asked for gnome flavor text submissions. That might have been interesting to see. And, I suspect, completely impractical.

Mind you, I'm not unhappy that gnomes aren't in the PH. They just never seemed to have a role in the game before Eberron (except for Dragonlance, where their role was comical and IMO uncool and unfitting).

 

[Falling Icicle]

So, basically, the 4e design team is fanatically bent on "improving" every race and fluff aspect of the game, and since they couldn't find a new gnome they liked, they didn't include it? Why couldn't they just leave them as they were? But then, alot of us have been asking that question in regards to alot of things they've fundamentally redesigned in 4e.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

The game is still in flux and making - don't discount possible changes.

 

[Fifth Element]

Well, they were a staple from 1st edition.
Even before then they were referred too in the old red box set.
Sort of sad to see them go

Heck, they were in the Chainmail Fantasy Supplement - though they were identical to dwarves. Dwarves and gnomes used the same stats.

 

[Falling Icicle]

1. It doesn't take many people to make a hubbub.
2. I've seen lots and lots of people saying "If wizards get at will abilities it's not D&D". And a few lamenting the loss of the druid.
3. Hussar's poll in the general forum showed that gnomes are the 2nd least popular race, the half-orc being least popular.

1. I could just as easily say that those who speak out in favor of 4e are a vocal minority. Since neither of us have conducted a scientific poll of D&D players, such speculation is useless. In any case, the strength of an opinion should not be measured by its popularity.

2. This is just another symptom of the same issue. The 4e designers seem to have no respect for the game we've been playing for years and are hellbent on making an entirely new game from the ground up, taking some inspiration and elements from D&D and using the D&D name. And understandably, alot of people are upset at what they consider to be the butchering of the game they love. Whether its gnomes, druids, or old school magic, people are naturally outraged to see aspects of the game that they love being disregarded in favor of what seems to be the most popular (or what the designers seem to think would be the most "cool").

3. So instead of holding any regard for the game's heritage and traditions, this has turned into a popularity contest? Alot of people point out how nobody plays Gnomes in their games, as if their experience speaks for everyone. Well, by that type of thinking, Dwarves shouldn't be in the PHB either, since I've hardly ever encountered anyone that likes Dwarves or would play one. And I bet that if Dwarves were back-shelved to the MM, there would be apologists defending that decision as well.

 

[Scarbonac]

My beloved half-orc is gone. I empathize with my gnomish brethren.