What's the big deal with point buy?

[ranger89]

Quite frankly, I am very disappointed in the attitude most gamers have towards rolling dice. I mean, dice is what the game is about. There is an element of luck in almost every other aspect of the game from height and weight to saving throws to attack rolls to skill checks.

...This isn't chess. It's D&D. There is randomness in the game and I think players need to get over it. Call me old fashioned, but I don't think point buys are as great of an "equalizer" as people seem to think they are. To me, the only advantage to point buy is that you can allow PCs to create more powerful characters if you want to run a more powerful campaign. I recognize the need for point buys in massive campaigns such as living campaigns where it is impossible to police everyone's rolls, but for my home campaign, I think a point buy is needless.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

I believe that players and DMs need to keep in mind that there is a wide range of reasons that people play D&D and a player's attitude towards ability stats, et al. is dependent on what kind of gamer the player is. The power-gamer type is going to obsess with his or her ability scores because they want to have the most powerful character they can build and most likely would like to have the strongest PC in the campaign. In that mindset, it makes perfect sense that the power-gamer would prefer point-buy. Conversely, the role player is not going to fret about random effects of rolling for their ability scores viewing low scores as flaws that make for better character development (e.g., a PC with a STR of 9 could be sickly). There's nothing wrong with either of those types of players or the various combinations of player types in between. It's all about personal preferences and enjoying the game in its many forms.

Personally, I'm a 50-50 power-gamer/role player. I would never consider using a point-buy but when I roll my dice, you'd better believe I'm praying to every deity out there for high scores.

 

[diaglo]

Are you sure? Coulda sworn that was str, int, wis, dex, con, cha...

i'm sure. the switch from con to dex in the order came about due to the introduction of the thief as a core class with Supplement I Greyhawk.

 

[danzig138]

Me? I prefer the best of both worlds. I have the group roll stats, and then everyone gets stats more or less equal to whoever rolled highest.

What I tried and liked was having each player roll a stat going around until all the stats were generated, and then having everyone use those numbers, place as desired. Everyone liked the rolls, except for the 7 that one of them rolled. It allowed for my preference for random gen, while keping the scores balanced between everyone, and the customization of placing the scores.

Normally, I just have people roll 3d6 in order. Maybe 4d6-drop the lowest if it's a tougher campaign. It took some time, but the players have grown to like that method. Or at least not hate it.

 

[mr_outsidevoice]

Point Buy


And I run a high power game so 32 points for PCs

I use point buy for NPCs as well
BBEG 32 point
Henchmen 28 point
Minions 25 point
Mooks straight out of book.

 

[D.Shaffer]

I prefer point buy myself. I also prefer standardized Hit Points.

It lets people create characters without the DM being present.
It presents an aspect of 'fairness' to the players as they are not beholden to an unlucky dice roll, nor can they grumble at the lucky player who managed to roll a bunch of high rolls.
It lets a player tailor his stats to better get the character he would like to play.

I dont miss random stats at all. There's enough randomness in the game as is when they try to do things, I dont see the need to put it into every single facet of the game.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Point Buy.

While all characters created through point buy will not be equal due to poor choices on some players part and over specialization on other players parts, they all, in theory, start on the same ground. I know, same arguement can be made for everyone rolling 4d6 since everyone is doing it. The difference though is it gives the players greater control over their ability scores in the end.

If I wanted really random, I'd go with Warhammer and make 'em roll out their starting careers too.

 

[Melan]

Firelance: that’s certainly an interesting analogy to think about. Unfortunately, I am firmly in the disposable PCs camp... it is a very important cornerstone of the philosophy with which I approach roleplaying.

Nellisir & arscott: how rules affect NPCs is much less significant an issue than how they do player characters. Usually, the players will see very little of the mechanics behind an NPC (beyond “he was pretty wimpy/tough” or “he used this spell/that feat”), whereas they are going to be intimately familiar with their own character sheets. What happens to the first is a footnote – what happens to the second is a crucial question in the game. Nevertheless, I maintain that there is a philosophical difference even in the case of NPCs. Consider, for example, an NPC whose scores are rolled in order... with maybe the prime requisite rerolled until it gives a positive bonus. On the average, these NPCs are going to be less geared towards effectiveness, and are sometimes going to possess deep “character flaws”. The same principles apply, but to a much lesser extent because their stats are less “transparent”.

 

[Jedi_Solo]

The power-gamer type is going to obsess with his or her ability scores because they want to have the most powerful character they can build and most likely would like to have the strongest PC in the campaign. In that mindset, it makes perfect sense that the power-gamer would prefer point-buy.

Interesting. In our group the powergamers would prefer rolling. I think tt is because it would give them a chance to get uber-characters which is denied in point-buy.

Or at least is denied in our point-buy of 28 points.

Maybe powergamers prefer point-buy in groups that go with 32 or 38 or 40+ point buy. It wouldn't surprise me if the number of power-gamers (however the term is defined in various groups) that prefer point-buy would decrease as the points increase. But in our group the power-gamers want to roll the dice.

 

[Cedric]

I'm a traditionalist who has been drug reluctantly into the world of 3.0 and 3.5 D&D. There are a number of things I don't like.

Point buy is near the top of the list though. Sure, it has its place right along with pre-gen characters for things like Living Greyhawk, Convention Games, etc. However, in a home game, I'll never use Point Buy and will argue vehemently (but politely) against the DM using it.

Of course, if the GM does decide to use it, I'll shut up and play, it's not like I'm going to take my toys and go home, I just want to make it clear before hand that I don't like point buy.

I think it promotes static, cookie cutter, min-maxed character design. Also, at any one, I have concepts for any kind of basic character concept you can play...so the stats I roll help me choose which concept I'll go with.

If I'm running I use 4d6 drop the lowest, roll 7 times, take the top 6 rolls. Usually you get very playable characters out of that, but I will review people's stats and have them roll again if I deem their character to be 'stillborn'.

Some of my most beloved characters have had one TRULY abyssmal stat (the rogue with the 5 wisdom, half-orc fighter with the 4 int, etc.). And...some of my most beloved characters have had high stats in an area that didn't make sense for them. Currently I'm playing a Goliath Fighter/Barbarian with a 16 wisdom and 14 int, stats were rolled using the Organic Method.

I love the dynamic, random nature of rolling for your stats.

Of course, 3.0 and 3.5 encourage you to map out your entire character progression to 20th level and beyond before you ever swing your sword or cast your first spell. If you are using point buy, its easier to map your character progression all the way. More predictable.

I'll pass thanks...

 

[Melan]

ranger89: I disagree with your post. I can easily imagine a “roleplayer” type who dislikes random stats because he wants to play a specific character with specific strengths and weaknesses - likewise, it is possible for a powergamer to obsess less about raw stats and instead focuses on using them very effectively.