TheAuldGrump
First Post
Hmmm, I don't know... Is it a LARP?Mark Hope said:Actually, can we have this instead? I've kinda gone off the idea of a mega-dungeon after reading this idea. Someone else can have my preordered copies...
The Auld Grump
What's the big stink about Rappan Athuk Reloaded?
- Thread starter Herobizkit
- Start date
The Auld Grump
Patman21967
First Post
I ran my gaming group through RA. We have been gaming together, every Sunday night, for about 16 years. We have been through many systems, many published adventures. Actuall Bowbe, I used Lich Lords and War of Darkness as a ie in to Bastion years ago, and mentioning JG brins up my favorite module of all time, Treasure Vaults of Lindoran. I started gamin at 12 years old in 1979, with a group of writer in Texas, who wrote stuff for JG, Fortress Badabaskor comes to mind, and I have ran games at Atlanticon. One of the coolest moments of all time however, was when in RA, my party af all Dwarves, used the "Shadowstaff" and unleashed nightcrawler on the Goblin City. That and they discovered the best way to killa Beholder, and actually RA caused the "Reach Touch" feat to be banned foreve in my games, unless it is granted by a class. The Shadow dragons nearly wiped the party 3 times.
I highly recommend RA.
Patrick
I highly recommend RA.
Patrick
bowbe
First Post
Hells yes Patman! Ranged Touch Feat=Ultimate Gross-ness. That little monster started in those Relic and Ritual books and the idea got snatched up by WOTC for complete devine right quickly! Now I believe they cost turning attempts to use but no matter.
I just snatched up a vintage copy of Mines of Custalcon for $5 from a friend the other day. I have Fortress of Badabaskor as well. Sadly some of my other oldie stuff was heavily used and is thus in pieces.
I've known all along that Necro doesn't have the widest appeal, even when I started writing for the Frog and Goat about 6 years ago but it doesn't matter to me. I get creative freedom. I get my name included in the Copywright (something other publishers won't give you). When they buy your manuscript, they BOUGHT it. Necro doesn't do you like that which is why I will write for them for the indefinite future!
BTW I think its great when I read stuff on this and various threads about "Wish I had an adventure on some haunted cannibal filled island of doom" or something of that ilk." It goes to show that our die-hard fans know all about us and that others have no clue that say... we've already done that.
You read all variety of things like this:
"I want an adventure with antagonistic parties seeking the same goal with a kick butt multi sided melee at the end to decide the fate of civilization".
Done that too!
"I want a campaign world different from things seen in the past, something that cleaves mildly to Fantasy fiction's semi science fiction roots, that reminds me of flicks like Krull, Conan the Barbarian, Anime, Thundarr the Barbarian, Xena and my little pony!"
Yep, Wilderlands.
"Wilderlands you say? Isn't that some nostalgia stuff? I hate nostalgia stuff." LOL, that cracks me up. If your still playing RPGs with dice and paper instead of wired to your computer 8 hours a day playing world of warcrack you love nostalgia and just don't know it. If instead you sit and think out challenges, adventure hooks, and different ways to enthuse your TT group or even HAVE a TT gaming group, you are a total nostalgia freak! Revel in your freakiness!
"I need meatier monsters to challenge a party of high level characters with and im not happy with MM II-IV and their "size makes right" and 6 round combat methodology, everyone in the group has those books already and metagames the crap out of the encounters! I need some REALLY wierd stuff that will challenge them and make them think."
Hmm, done that 3 times now.
"Necromancer Games? Tome of Horrors? Never heard of them. Wait, don't they do that more of that "nostalgia" crap? I hate nostalgia."
LOL
"Necromancer Games... isn't that Scarred Lands? I thought Scarred Lands (Sucked/Was Cool) is a dead setting. Why would I want a dead setting?"
Um no... used the same imprint and distribution chain, not the same setting. Technically Necro doesn't have a default setting. Our stuff is explicitly designed to fit into YOUR default setting of choice as seamlessly as possible. The confusion was absolutely understandable. Heck, even when I started writing for Necro, Clark would e-mail me notes all the time saying "dude, we aren't scarred lands, so don't use so much SL stuff!" About 6 months of drilling that into my head finally made it click! LoL. Even retailers were confused by this. I wouldn't say it's totally hurt or helped Necro over the long run but I understand the confusion!
"Who the heck are these guys at Necromancer Games, I haven't heard of any of them and don't recognize their names as any former employees of WOTC, how did they start a D20 company without any street cred?"
Necro are mostly all guys and girls with day jobs who love gaming as much as you do! Started by guys who jumped on board early with the d20 license and have clung to it like a brain sucking mind flayer. Guys that never worked for WOTC or any other game company! Thats pretty much the core of Necromancer Games, starting with Bill and Clark and working its way down the list of fellow contributors, authors and the rest.
Bill and Clark had Mike Mearls do a book for us back when he was still part of Firey Dragon. We all know who he works for now! Currently we have a cool adventure (Doom of Listonshire) from Ari Marmel who freelances for WOTC, and if I'm not mistaken we have another cool project of his in the pipeline with some awesome stuff contributed by Rich Burlew and others. We re-released and 3ed'ified Gygax's Necropolis, introducing that cool adventure/setting to a ton of people who had never heard of it before! Some of the old and some of the new! Not bad at all.
"I just read that someone bid $520 to hang with Necromancer Games at the Ennies! Thats crazy, what have they produced? Have they ever actually won anything at the Ennies? I thought Malhavoc, Piazo and Green Ronin won everything, so whats the big deal with this company I have never heard of?"
Good question. I would say we haven't done too bad at the ennies over the years. Typically not the 1st place winners but some 2nd's here and there of which we are always very humbled and very thankful. We are blessed with a FANTASTIC core fan base that keeps our fires fueled! Last year our fan and fellow cohort Shane G. Outbid the rest of the field. This year MasterArcanist bid $520 for Rappan Athuk 0001 signed, a seat at the ennies and the WW party plus some other very fine perks! For us it isn't so much about what we "get" at the ennies, it holds a lot about what we Do for the ennies. Something that is very important to all of us. Not that we really "do" anything other than offer our fans some of the cool. They are the ones that feel it is worthwhile enough to bid it up and help out! That is awesome awesome awesome!
So yeah, alot of people haven't heard of us, or see the "1st edition feel" slogan and figure "not worth my time". No worries. There are plenty of things that appeal to those folks and they are totally entitled to find and consume products that meet their needs! Honestly, anything that keeps people interested and playing RPGs helps all of us!
If by chance some of those fine folks decided to give our stuff a 2nd look, or in many cases a 1st look I would bet alot of them would be surprised at the sort of things we have offered over the years and how well they actually DO match up with things they dig about RPGs in general and D20 style D&D in specific!
Thanks for your time! Hope to see a ton of you at Gen Con next week.
Peace
Case
I just snatched up a vintage copy of Mines of Custalcon for $5 from a friend the other day. I have Fortress of Badabaskor as well. Sadly some of my other oldie stuff was heavily used and is thus in pieces.
I've known all along that Necro doesn't have the widest appeal, even when I started writing for the Frog and Goat about 6 years ago but it doesn't matter to me. I get creative freedom. I get my name included in the Copywright (something other publishers won't give you). When they buy your manuscript, they BOUGHT it. Necro doesn't do you like that which is why I will write for them for the indefinite future!
BTW I think its great when I read stuff on this and various threads about "Wish I had an adventure on some haunted cannibal filled island of doom" or something of that ilk." It goes to show that our die-hard fans know all about us and that others have no clue that say... we've already done that.
You read all variety of things like this:
"I want an adventure with antagonistic parties seeking the same goal with a kick butt multi sided melee at the end to decide the fate of civilization".
Done that too!
"I want a campaign world different from things seen in the past, something that cleaves mildly to Fantasy fiction's semi science fiction roots, that reminds me of flicks like Krull, Conan the Barbarian, Anime, Thundarr the Barbarian, Xena and my little pony!"
Yep, Wilderlands.
"Wilderlands you say? Isn't that some nostalgia stuff? I hate nostalgia stuff." LOL, that cracks me up. If your still playing RPGs with dice and paper instead of wired to your computer 8 hours a day playing world of warcrack you love nostalgia and just don't know it. If instead you sit and think out challenges, adventure hooks, and different ways to enthuse your TT group or even HAVE a TT gaming group, you are a total nostalgia freak! Revel in your freakiness!
"I need meatier monsters to challenge a party of high level characters with and im not happy with MM II-IV and their "size makes right" and 6 round combat methodology, everyone in the group has those books already and metagames the crap out of the encounters! I need some REALLY wierd stuff that will challenge them and make them think."
Hmm, done that 3 times now.
"Necromancer Games? Tome of Horrors? Never heard of them. Wait, don't they do that more of that "nostalgia" crap? I hate nostalgia."
LOL
"Necromancer Games... isn't that Scarred Lands? I thought Scarred Lands (Sucked/Was Cool) is a dead setting. Why would I want a dead setting?"
Um no... used the same imprint and distribution chain, not the same setting. Technically Necro doesn't have a default setting. Our stuff is explicitly designed to fit into YOUR default setting of choice as seamlessly as possible. The confusion was absolutely understandable. Heck, even when I started writing for Necro, Clark would e-mail me notes all the time saying "dude, we aren't scarred lands, so don't use so much SL stuff!" About 6 months of drilling that into my head finally made it click! LoL. Even retailers were confused by this. I wouldn't say it's totally hurt or helped Necro over the long run but I understand the confusion!
"Who the heck are these guys at Necromancer Games, I haven't heard of any of them and don't recognize their names as any former employees of WOTC, how did they start a D20 company without any street cred?"
Necro are mostly all guys and girls with day jobs who love gaming as much as you do! Started by guys who jumped on board early with the d20 license and have clung to it like a brain sucking mind flayer. Guys that never worked for WOTC or any other game company! Thats pretty much the core of Necromancer Games, starting with Bill and Clark and working its way down the list of fellow contributors, authors and the rest.
Bill and Clark had Mike Mearls do a book for us back when he was still part of Firey Dragon. We all know who he works for now! Currently we have a cool adventure (Doom of Listonshire) from Ari Marmel who freelances for WOTC, and if I'm not mistaken we have another cool project of his in the pipeline with some awesome stuff contributed by Rich Burlew and others. We re-released and 3ed'ified Gygax's Necropolis, introducing that cool adventure/setting to a ton of people who had never heard of it before! Some of the old and some of the new! Not bad at all.
"I just read that someone bid $520 to hang with Necromancer Games at the Ennies! Thats crazy, what have they produced? Have they ever actually won anything at the Ennies? I thought Malhavoc, Piazo and Green Ronin won everything, so whats the big deal with this company I have never heard of?"
Good question. I would say we haven't done too bad at the ennies over the years. Typically not the 1st place winners but some 2nd's here and there of which we are always very humbled and very thankful. We are blessed with a FANTASTIC core fan base that keeps our fires fueled! Last year our fan and fellow cohort Shane G. Outbid the rest of the field. This year MasterArcanist bid $520 for Rappan Athuk 0001 signed, a seat at the ennies and the WW party plus some other very fine perks! For us it isn't so much about what we "get" at the ennies, it holds a lot about what we Do for the ennies. Something that is very important to all of us. Not that we really "do" anything other than offer our fans some of the cool. They are the ones that feel it is worthwhile enough to bid it up and help out! That is awesome awesome awesome!
So yeah, alot of people haven't heard of us, or see the "1st edition feel" slogan and figure "not worth my time". No worries. There are plenty of things that appeal to those folks and they are totally entitled to find and consume products that meet their needs! Honestly, anything that keeps people interested and playing RPGs helps all of us!
If by chance some of those fine folks decided to give our stuff a 2nd look, or in many cases a 1st look I would bet alot of them would be surprised at the sort of things we have offered over the years and how well they actually DO match up with things they dig about RPGs in general and D20 style D&D in specific!
Thanks for your time! Hope to see a ton of you at Gen Con next week.
Peace
Case
Hierax
First Post
That's a wonderful answer to the Dungeon Crawl haters about how to use mega-dungeons for a focused mission.Orcus said:I will say this, though. Even if you love "roleplaying" over dungeon crawling, that doesnt mean you should avoid RA. Think about it this way: a dungeon is an epic setting with great challenges. Great roleplaying needs that. We dont play "advertisements and accountants" we play "dungeons and dragons." You dont rescue Suzie from the mean paperboy at the corner store. You retrieve the staff of death from the tower of doom guarded by Dragotha. YOu need a setting like RA. Or, think of it in movie terms. How about the movie Star Wars. Luke and Co didnt rescue Leia from Godo the silly Ewok, they went to the freaking Death Star and rescued her from Darth Vader, the evil cleric dressed in all black plate. Think of RA as the Death Star. The story you decide to tell in the death star is your decision. If Necro were to do the death star dungeon, we would provide maps of all levels and a list of all monsters and their motivations, just like RA. we'd list vader (the evil high priest), we would note that there was a room that contained a captured princess. Now if you, using that product, just decide to send your PCs to the death star to kick in doors one by one, that is your choice. That is not the death star's fault. But if you send your PCs to break into the death star to rescue the princess and escape the clutches of the evil high priest, that is also your choice and can be full of great roleplaying. The product is there for you to use. And the fact that you dont want to dungeon crawl doesnt mean you cant use it. In fact, because of its epic nature, it is great for roleplaying. If you decide to use RA just as a mindless door kick in treasure hunt, that is your choice. But that isnt RA's fault. You could just as easily use it as a very focused quest location with very specific story elements. Back to the death star example, if you bought the "death star dungeon" the fact that you dont play out the great adventure that is star wars is not the dungeon's fault. that is a DM choice. Lots of lazy DMs just do door kicking and treasure looting. Now that has its fun and appeal (by the way, I am not sayiing dungeon crawling is from lazy DMs, i love dungeon crawling and so do my players, i mean it is lazy to think that the only use for a dungeon is dungeon crawling, because it isnt; so no hate email from dungeon crawling DMs please). But there is no reason you couldnt, instead, use it for epic heroic and deep roleplaying.
Clark
I love the Death Star mega-dungeon analogy.
It's not unlike how one could use the good old Temple of Elemental Evil for a mission to rescue a certain imprisoned personage -- now it's a very different story if one's goal is to free a certain fun-queen than a human paragon. A good dungeon is the backdrop and life-blood of several different potential stories that the PCs create.
It's not what you've got it's what you do with it.
It's just that the big mean-assed mega-dungeons give you a vastly wider smorgasboard of evil items to choose from when crafting your quest.
Now, what to do with Rappan Athuk? Hmm, maybe something about recovering that trinket on the pen-ultimate level and then tie it all in with Abysthor somehow, hmm...
Breakdaddy
First Post
Damn, I missed picking up a copy when I was at Gen Con! I KNEW I forgot something, but this was a big one. Very dissapointing... I'll have to order a copy online I suppose.
Wraith Form
Explorer
Now that's crazy thinking. For source books? Dead tree all the way, baby. Gimme hardcover books for that. But for adventures? You're gonna want to write notes on the thing, make adjustments, etc, so having a PDF is a smart way of approaching it: you can print any pages you think you're gonna change without ruining your pretty new book.Ottergame said:
And, as mentioned, despite some work, there is the 3.0 Rappan Athuk NON-reloaded version, all three PDFs for around $15 US dollars.
THAT'S not too shab, despite a little extra 3.5 conversion work.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
Awesome argument/sales pitch from Orcus there, I agree.
Herobizkit
Adventurer
Not to derail the thread completely, but what do you mean by "size makes right" and 6 round combat methodology? I've been thinking of picking up a MM3 to replace my old and predictable MMI. (Did I just answer my own question?)bowbe said:
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