D&D General What's the DC for a fighter to heal their ally with a prayer?

[Micah Sweet]

Well, I think overall the same basic debate ensues. The first issue IMHO is the higher bar for fictionally justifying it. Everyone is likely, in a god run world, to have SOME sort of relationship with the gods, and they have a history of healing magic, so there's a fairly ready-made fictional position there to exploit. What about this more 'arcane' sort of magic, which is generally getting explained as being a result of deep practice and theoretical and practical understanding of some sort of 'laws of magic'? It seems a LOT less easy to justify the notion that some random fighter, having nothing in her background to indicate otherwise, is sufficiently familiar with these laws as to provide them with a chance to replicate the casting of a complex level 3 spell.

I mean, go ahead, as the player provide your justification in the fiction. I suspect we're all going to pretty much agree that this is going to have to be pretty good! OTOH apprentices are able to carry out cantrips pretty reliably, so perhaps a fighter with really good fictional justification and some real luck/skill might pull off something similar one time. The consequences of poor die rolls I leave to the imagination, but they might not be all that pretty!

Secret sorcerer. Mutant powers manifest in a period of great stress. The PC has to take their next level in sorcerer and select at least one fire-based spell (probably Fire Bolt).

 

[FrozenNorth]

Well, I think overall the same basic debate ensues. The first issue IMHO is the higher bar for fictionally justifying it. Everyone is likely, in a god run world, to have SOME sort of relationship with the gods, and they have a history of healing magic, so there's a fairly ready-made fictional position there to exploit. What about this more 'arcane' sort of magic, which is generally getting explained as being a result of deep practice and theoretical and practical understanding of some sort of 'laws of magic'? It seems a LOT less easy to justify the notion that some random fighter, having nothing in her background to indicate otherwise, is sufficiently familiar with these laws as to provide them with a chance to replicate the casting of a complex level 3 spell.

I mean, go ahead, as the player provide your justification in the fiction. I suspect we're all going to pretty much agree that this is going to have to be pretty good! OTOH apprentices are able to carry out cantrips pretty reliably, so perhaps a fighter with really good fictional justification and some real luck/skill might pull off something similar one time. The consequences of poor die rolls I leave to the imagination, but they might not be all that pretty!

I think you have hit on something true by identifying the issue as one of fictional positioning. With nothing else, if a fighter yells "Fireball!", nothing happens.

BUT... a fighter, trained in Arcana, grabs the dying wizard's wand of fireballs, and tries to use his knowledge of Arcana to activate it, despite the fact that normally, it requires attunement by a spellcaster, I would allow an Arcana check to try. It would probably have a high (but not impossible) DC, and if he failed, there would be some sort of serious spell mishap, but he would have a chance to succeed.

 

[Chaosmancer]

What would the DC be for a fighter to cast Fireball?

If you have proficiency in Arcana, but no spell slots?

DC 15, it takes an hour long ritual, and costs 4 Hit Dice. Minimum. That's about what feels right for a theorist to try and put messing with the fundamental forces of fire into practice.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I think you have hit on something true by identifying the issue as one of fictional positioning. With nothing else, if a fighter yells "Fireball!", nothing happens.

BUT... a fighter, trained in Arcana, grabs the dying wizard's wand of fireballs, and tries to use his knowledge of Arcana to activate it, despite the fact that normally, it requires attunement by a spellcaster, I would allow an Arcana check to try. It would probably have a high (but not impossible) DC, and if he failed, there would be some sort of serious spell mishap, but he would have a chance to succeed.

Agreed

 

[Manbearcat]

What would the DC be for a fighter to cast Fireball?

Is there an entitled D&D Wizard player at the table that would be mega-annoyed at this Fighter casting Fireball?

Yes?

DC negative 343 and the Fighter’s Fireball auto-destroys all the enemies, reaches through the void, and fiery backhands the D&D Wizard player IRL.

No?

“Do you have like a…D&D Wizard playing friend that we could call to come over right quick before we resolve this?”

 

[Voadam]

FYI there is an OSR greek myth book, Arete, with specific mechanics for calling on the gods.

 

[Imaro]

What would the DC be for a fighter to cast Fireball?

At this point... why are we playing a class based system when it's clear that the niches, restrictions and advantages of the various classes are easily circumvented by skill rolls and the players wholeheartedly intend to do this on a regular basis... If only they had something akin to a fantasy genre roleplaying game that was skill based... if only...

 

[Imaro]

Is there an entitled D&D Wizard player at the table that would be mega-annoyed at this Fighter casting Fireball?

Yes?

DC negative 343 and the Fighter’s Fireball auto-destroys all the enemies, reaches through the void, and fiery backhands the D&D Wizard player IRL.

No?

“Do you have like a…D&D Wizard playing friend that we could call to come over right quick before we resolve this?”

So now a player who has chosen to play a class and resource based game which contains inherent archetype and niche protection as well as limited resources is considered "entitled" if they're not happy someone can walk all over that niche and disregard those resources with a skill roll?... that's an interesting take I guess...

 

[Chaosmancer]

At this point... why are we playing a class based system when it's clear that the niches, restrictions and advantages of the various classes are easily circumvented by skill rolls and the players wholeheartedly intend to do this on a regular basis... If only they had something akin to a fantasy genre roleplaying game that was skill based... if only...

Yeah, if only the game had included multi-classing since the first book of the edition. Or feats that allowed you take aspects of a class's features, like Magic Initiate, Martial Adept, Eldritch Adept, Metamagic Adept, Lightly/Moderately/Heavily Armored, Ritual Caster, Fey-Touched, Shadow-Touched, ect ect. Or even subclasses that allowed mixing of class archetypes, like some sort of Edritch Knight, Arcane Trickster, Blade Singing Wizard, Valor Bard, Swords Bard, Hexblade Warlock...

Yeah, if only the game had some way to indicate that people may have skills or abilities that cross class lines. Too bad none of that existed before now and every class stayed in its lane with zero possible overlap.

 

[Ovi]

So now a player who has chosen to play a class and resource based game which contains inherent archetype and niche protection as well as limited resources is considered "entitled" if they're not happy someone can walk all over that niche and disregard those resources with a skill roll?... that's an interesting take I guess...

Being able to pray to stabilize/minorly heal an ally is stepping so hard on the cleric/bard/sorcerer/paladin/druid/monk class niche that class distinctions are meaningless?

Or is it that a fighter getting some way to produce fireball outside of a class ability is stepping on the niche of the wizard/sorcerer/bard/cleric/fighter(intentional inclusion)?

I'm sure I've left some class off their niche. They should also have protections. ETA: Warlock! I forgot the warlock. Please consider the warlock added to both lists.