D&D General What's the DC for a fighter to heal their ally with a prayer?

[Vaalingrade]

So now a player who has chosen to play a class and resource based game which contains inherent archetype and niche protection as well as limited resources is considered "entitled" if they're not happy someone can walk all over that niche and disregard those resources with a skill roll?... that's an interesting take I guess...

No, but the one who played the game that keeps telling people 'you can play anything' might be a bit.

Also niche protection is inherently entitled and should probably burn forever in the deepest pit.

 

[Imaro]

Imaro…it was just a joke…












…the Fighter Player’s DC to cast Fireball would be -874 and the entitled D&D Wizard player gets punted to the moon, not backhanded.

Ah, ok... thanks for clearing that up, it's often hard for me to discern which of your posts are complete jokes and which ones shouldn't be taken that way.

 

[Imaro]

Being able to pray to stabilize/minorly heal an ally is stepping so hard on the cleric/bard/sorcerer/paladin/druid/monk class niche that class distinctions are meaningless?

Or is it that a fighter getting some way to produce fireball outside of a class ability is stepping on the niche of the wizard/sorcerer/bard/cleric/fighter(intentional inclusion)?

I'm sure I've left some class off their niche. They should also have protections. ETA: Warlock! I forgot the warlock. Please consider the warlock added to both lists.

You forgot the Eldritch Knight and Spellthief in your first category as well... you know the actual fighter (& thief) who spent resources and made choices (narrative and mechanical) to gain access to magic... but you know...details.

Actually do we even need those two classes since their main differentiating subclass ability could just be replicated with a skill roll by any other subclass? In fact if a regular fighter can both declare his connection to a sorcerous bloodline and pray for divine aid... he has access to more varied and better magical spells so is arguably better than either.

 

[Imaro]

I don't normally see this argument put forward for fighting without weapons (qv monks) or for disarming (qv fighters, cavaliers and sub-classes in some early editions, and Battlemasters in 5e).

Do you see it put forward for everyone to have unarmed defense? To use dexterity instead of Strength for attack and damage rolls of unarmed strikes? To have scaling unarmed attacks? Use Ki? This post is disingenuous and I think you know it. One category is so broad as to be meaningless and the other is a specific maneuver among many that the Battlemaster can perform (among many others) better.

Those explicit mechanics create parameters within which a good GM will adjudicate improvised actions. But I don't see them as setting the limits on what is possible in the fiction.

No, in D&D, the DM does that and I think nearly everyone has been in agreement about that for awhile now. Some find these mechanics to be the limiting point in their world... I think it would be fair to just assume we are talking about our own games when posting. The problem is that setting limitations are being painted as badwrongfun in this thread by a certain contingent of posters... which is par for the course in particular threads where a small but "LIKE" happy group of posters who are very ingrained in their way of doing things and are unwilling to acknowledge the validity of other playstyles, ways of running the game, etc. but also claim it is their style of play being attacked eventually get what they want as people drift away from the thread and it becomes an echo chamber (YAY!!) or it gets closed down because of the vitriol going back and forth.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

No, but the one who played the game that keeps telling people 'you can play anything' might be a bit.

Also niche protection is inherently entitled and should probably burn forever in the deepest pit.

Then don’t play a class based game.

 

[Ovi]

You forgot the Eldritch Knight and Spellthief in your first category as well... you know the actual fighter (& thief) who spent resources and made choices (narrative and mechanical) to gain access to magic... but you know...details.

Don't recall either getting access to healing spells. Really, though, it's all classes all the time, since everyone can buy a healer's kit and thereby just crush the niche protections. Just crush.

But, that aside, you've done a bit of goal post shifting here. I was responding to the niche protection argument, and showing that that niche is so broad that it's pretty much baseline, but you've responded with a different argument about resources invested. However, the question asked in the OP is parallel to something that requires no real investment at all -- a healer's kit, or multiple feats, or a cantrip. The difference is that the fighter has to attempt the effort with no guarantee of result -- all of the responses allowing it have failure as a possibility, while the others are fiat abilities that just work without risk of failure. Buy a healers kit -- works. Use the Healer feat -- works. Use a cantrip -- works. Use a higher level resource -- works and better.

You're claiming that a mere chance as something that another class can do with a minimal resource without risk is somehow so terrible that it risks unbalancing the resource game and the niche protections. I just don't see it. You clearly have no issue with the fighter's shtick of melee or ranged combat being totally shared out, often better, to other classes.

Actually do we even need those two classes since their main differentiating subclass ability could just be replicated with a skill roll by any other subclass? In fact if a regular fighter can both declare his connection to a sorcerous bloodline and pray for divine aid... he has access to more varied and better magical spells so is arguably better than either.

It's replicated by a host of other classes and things. And they're fiat abilities for those characters -- they get to do them and have the work. The fighter trying to declare as you posit here, is not guaranteed anything even if the attempt is allowed. You're arguing against the chance, and assuming that allowing the chance means parity. I'm not sure where you get that from.

 

[Ovi]

Then don’t play a class based game.

There aren't really niches in 5e, though. Everyone steps everywhere.

 

[Imaro]

Divine magic also requires training, not just favor. That's why paladins get divine magic powers, and fighters get Cool Moves.

Well apparently all it takes is mumbling a few words and the right skill to cast/channel magic... those wizards, paladins, clerics, etc who all trained to be able to do it are just rubes.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Then don’t play a class based game.

Niche protection is an ill that is independent from class-based games.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Well apparently all it takes is mumbling a few words and the right skill to cast/channel magic... those wizards, paladins, clerics, etc who all trained to be able to do it are just rubes.

I'm telling you, if the fighter wants to cast spells, let him do it one time and then have him take his next level in sorcerer. Let's you sidestep the training issue.