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Pathfinder 2E What's the deal with 3rd party PF2E Adventure "support"??

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
If I'm ever able to get some more experience for PF2 under my belt, I'd love to write some 3pp/fan-created material for it. The tools for developers seem much more generous than what is provided by 5e.
Like I tried to adapt an old adventure series I wrote to 5e, only to find numerous things aren't available to use unless you publish on DMs Guild - and then you have to use Forgotten Realms and aren't allowed to change certain things of the setting, cosmology, history, etc.
You can’t use Paizo’s setting, either. Sorry to disappoint!
 

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Retreater

Legend
You can’t use Paizo’s setting, either. Sorry to disappoint!

I don't want to use anyone's setting but my own - and make it generic enough to be dropped into any world a DM/GM wants.

The main problem I've had with 5e is that to use anything outside of the Basic rules, I would be required to use the Forgotten Realms on DMs Guild. I know little to nothing about that setting.
 


Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I don't want to use anyone's setting but my own - and make it generic enough to be dropped into any world a DM/GM wants.

The main problem I've had with 5e is that to use anything outside of the Basic rules, I would be required to use the Forgotten Realms on DMs Guild. I know little to nothing about that setting.
You don’t have to use the Realms.
 

Philip Benz

A Dragontooth Grognard
I think part of the problem may be that PF2 is, at least in some fashion, backward compatible?

PF2 is definitely NOT "backward compatible" except in the broadest possible terms. You still have Dwarves & Elves, Clerics & Rogues, stats & feats, but the way they are juggled together is totally different. A PF1 stat block doesn't give you anything useable in PF2.

Contrary to Retreater's experience with Forgotten Realms, Paizo's Compatibility licence requires you to completely eschew Golarion lore if you are writing for-profit 3pp content. It's either in a generic world, or in an alternate world of your making. So a prospective module writer can't cuddle up to his favorite location in Cheliax or Nidal, nor expound on the divine virtues of Sarenrae, unless he's willing to make free, not-for-profit material under the Community licence.

This feels like a shame for those in love with Golarion lore. But in a sense it is liberating. It's like going back to the 70s when every DM made up "his own world" out of whole cloth.
 

JeffB

Legend
I haven’t played it but not according to Paizo. But I’ll take your word for it.

I haven't played it (yet), either. But digging into the rules in the PF2SRD I would say not very backward compatible**. There are lots of new terms, the math is completely different, many familiar terms/procedures work in new ways/with new mechanics, etc. I wouldn't want to convert anything- too much work.

** And Bulhman says essentially the same thing in the first few paragraphs of the PF2 conversion guide - albeit with a nice sugar-coating ;)

PF2 Conversion Guide said:
Pathfinder Second Edition draws from the same inspirations as First Edition and attempts to keep many of the basic game conventions the same, but many of its rules are a significant departure from those in First Edition......

….The differences between the first and second editions of Pathfinder are significant enough that you can’t convert from one to the other by changing a few numbers and updating a few terms, so a straightforward conversion formula is impossible. Instead, the goal of this guide is helping you understand how best to recreate the elements you need to continue your story
 

apoapostolov

Explorer
PF2 is definitely NOT "backward compatible" except in the broadest possible terms. You still have Dwarves & Elves, Clerics & Rogues, stats & feats, but the way they are juggled together is totally different. A PF1 stat block doesn't give you anything useable in PF2.

Contrary to Retreater's experience with Forgotten Realms, Paizo's Compatibility licence requires you to completely eschew Golarion lore if you are writing for-profit 3pp content. It's either in a generic world, or in an alternate world of your making. So a prospective module writer can't cuddle up to his favorite location in Cheliax or Nidal, nor expound on the divine virtues of Sarenrae, unless he's willing to make free, not-for-profit material under the Community licence.

This feels like a shame for those in love with Golarion lore. But in a sense it is liberating. It's like going back to the 70s when every DM made up "his own world" out of whole cloth.
I think Paizo will never open their setting to third party because their own monthly adventure production pace greatly overwhelm players and DMs on its own. Allowing even more adventure competition in their magazine business model doesn't make sense. However Paizo store is very archaic compared to even lackluster digital stores like DriveThru.
 


Retreater

Legend
You don’t have to use the Realms.
Oh, I see that it's expanded to Eberron and Ravenloft (if you connect it to Curse of Strahd). You still can't create your own homebrew setting with history, politics, new races, etc. - unless I'm missing something?

In general, I have no interest in any published campaign settings (whether it's Golarion, Eberron, Forgotten Realms, etc.) I don't care about 10,000 years of history filled with unpronounceable names that my characters are never going to interact with.

I don't think it belongs at the game table. It might be fun for some DMs to read, but it's not useful to me. My eyelids already start to droop when I'm reading a complex, long-winded adventure backstory. If it's hard for a GM to wrap his brain around in a neatly written essay, you can bet the players aren't going to grasp it when it's presented over the course of a year, getting portions delivered to them every week or two by various NPCs in between encounters and bathroom breaks.
 
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Mistwell

Legend
If I'm ever able to get some more experience for PF2 under my belt, I'd love to write some 3pp/fan-created material for it. The tools for developers seem much more generous than what is provided by 5e.
Like I tried to adapt an old adventure series I wrote to 5e, only to find numerous things aren't available to use unless you publish on DMs Guild - and then you have to use Forgotten Realms and aren't allowed to change certain things of the setting, cosmology, history, etc.

There are currently three official settings open to 3rd parties for 5e. There are currently zero official settings open to 3rd parties for PF1 or PF2.
 

Parmandur

Legend
I don't want to use anyone's setting but my own - and make it generic enough to be dropped into any world a DM/GM wants.

The main problem I've had with 5e is that to use anything outside of the Basic rules, I would be required to use the Forgotten Realms on DMs Guild. I know little to nothing about that setting.

That is incorrect, you don't need to use the Forgotten Realms on DMsGuild, you can do generic setting neutral, or use Eberron, Ravenloft or Ravnuca. You can't use your own setting, but you can de generic.
 

Parmandur

Legend
You still can't create your own homebrew setting with history, politics, new races, etc. - unless I'm missing something?

You can do generic, building block material. Can't make it a whioe elaborate IP setting, but you can make material with no particular setting. Most do.
 

Retreater

Legend
You can do generic, building block material. Can't make it a whioe elaborate IP setting, but you can make material with no particular setting. Most do.
Unless I'm wrong, if you want to use anything more than the most basic of the Basic rules, you have to go the route of DMs Guild in the official settings. And there are glaring omissions, stuff that most writers would assume would be in there based on the 3.x SRD.
Obviously no beholders, displacer beasts, carrion crawlers, or other Wizards IP. But it's missing ghasts, duergar, and probably much more. And only 3 monsters of a challenge higher than 8.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Oh, I see that it's expanded to Eberron and Ravenloft (if you connect it to Curse of Strahd). You still can't create your own homebrew setting with history, politics, new races, etc. - unless I'm missing something?

No, but you can do setting-neutral stuff. You don't have to use a setting at all.

Or just use the OGL, like everybody else who is publishing settings. Added bonus, that way you can use Kickstarter, too.

In general, I have no interest in any published campaign settings (whether it's Golarion, Eberron, Forgotten Realms, etc.) I don't care about 10,000 years of history filled with unpronounceable names that my characters are never going to interact with.

OK.
 

Parmandur

Legend
Unless I'm wrong, if you want to use anything more than the most basic of the Basic rules, you have to go the route of DMs Guild in the official settings. And there are glaring omissions, stuff that most writers would assume would be in there based on the 3.x SRD.
Obviously no beholders, displacer beasts, carrion crawlers, or other Wizards IP. But it's missing ghasts, duergar, and probably much more. And only 3 monsters of a challenge higher than 8.

If you go the route of the DMsGuild, you don't need to use an official setting: setting-neutral is an explicit option.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Unless I'm wrong, if you want to use anything more than the most basic of the Basic rules

No, you can't use the Basic Rules. You have to use System Reference Documents. If you're publishing for the OGL, ignore the basic rules PDF; that's not what's OGC.

But it's missing ghasts, duergar, and probably much more. And only 3 monsters of a challenge higher than 8.
All those words have been OGC for 20 years years now. The publication of 5E didn't change that. 99% of 5E's terminology can be found in older SRDs.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
(All this info is publicly available, BTW; if you're interested in publishing, you've got a bunch of reading to do!)
 

Retreater

Legend
(All this info is publicly available, BTW; if you're interested in publishing, you've got a bunch of reading to do!)
This has been very useful. Thanks for the information.
I'll need to figure out what to write to stay permissible without being forced into the DMs Guild ecosystem.
Upon first glance the project was not going to be do-able with those limitations.
 

dave2008

Legend
This has been very useful. Thanks for the information.
I'll need to figure out what to write to stay permissible without being forced into the DMs Guild ecosystem.
Upon first glance the project was not going to be do-able with those limitations.
If you don't want to use setting specific items (like places, NPCs, gods, etc. - this includes some monsters too) of any D&D setting, then go OGL; If you want to use any setting specific items go DMsGuild; if you want to use the full repertoire of D&D, but don't want to use setting specific items, go DMsGuild w/ generic setting.
 

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