Pathfinder 2E What's the deal with 3rd party PF2E Adventure "support"??

[Retreater]

I won't speculate further on the history between Frog God and Paizo, but it has been documented should anyone want to research it. I do know that Frog God sold off their entire PF1 catalog and gave the publishing rights to another company. It would've seemed they're done with PF in all its incarnations, so I don't know why they're publishing new material for PF1.

 

[DaveMage]

I won't speculate further on the history between Frog God and Paizo, but it has been documented should anyone want to research it. I do know that Frog God sold off their entire PF1 catalog and gave the publishing rights to another company. It would've seemed they're done with PF in all its incarnations, so I don't know why they're publishing new material for PF1.

Are you sure about that? Most of their PF titles are also their S&W and 5E titles so this seems rather unlikely.

 

[Morrus]

I won't speculate further on the history between Frog God and Paizo, but it has been documented should anyone want to research it. I do know that Frog God sold off their entire PF1 catalog and gave the publishing rights to another company. It would've seemed they're done with PF in all its incarnations, so I don't know why they're publishing new material for PF1.

Frog God has 102 Pathfinder RPG products available for sale on Paizo.com.

paizo.com - Store / Frog God Games

 

[Retreater]

Strange. There has been a guy on Facebook saying that his company has picked up the stock of Frog God's PF stuff and the rights to print it. This has been several months ago, but if I find the link, I'll post it.

 

[Staffan]

I see multiple reasons for the lack of 3PP support of PF2:

• It's a new game, so they don't know it well enough yet. With PF1, 3PPs had many years of experience making stuff for 3.0 and 3.5 and the difference in making stuff for PF1 is minimal. This is made a little worse by the next item on the list.
• The base game doesn't have much support for making your own stuff. For example, the monster/NPC design rules will be coming in the GMG (though there's a preview available on the site).
• Uncertainty. Pathfinder 2 is a new game, and they don't know how well it will do, so why risk anything on it?
• Licensing. Yeah, the game itself is open under the OGL. But the game relies heavily on a small amount of iconography, and those icons are not open content - to get to use those you need a separate agreement. My understanding is that it's not super-onerous (nowhere near the old d20 STL), but it's still another hoop to go through.
• Higher specificity. Core PF2 has stronger ties to the Golarion/Lost Omens setting than core PF1 did. For example, there are several spells that have different effects based on your deity.

Out of these, I reckon the uncertainty is the biggest one, with the others being additional hurdles on top of that.

 

[Morrus]

I see multiple reasons for the lack of 3PP support of PF2:

Some of these work, but a couple don't, because this isn't the first time they've been true.

It's a new game, so they don't know it well enough yet. With PF1, 3PPs had many years of experience making stuff for 3.0 and 3.5 and the difference in making stuff for PF1 is minimal.

That's historically never been an impediment. People jumped into 3E and 5E the very first second they could (in fact, S&S brought out the Creature Catalog before 3E's own Monster Manual). Newness to the rules has never been a barrier to third party support.

Uncertainty. Pathfinder 2 is a new game, and they don't know how well it will do, so why risk anything on it?

As above. Didn't stop anybody with 3E, 4E, 5E, and PF1.

Licensing. Yeah, the game itself is open under the OGL. But the game relies heavily on a small amount of iconography, and those icons are not open content - to get to use those you need a separate agreement. My understanding is that it's not super-onerous (nowhere near the old d20 STL), but it's still another hoop to go through.

Almost the exact same license as for PF1, and not dissimilar to the d20 STL. Neither of those slowed people one jot.

If any of those reasons were true now, they would have been true before. That means, logically (assuming we accept the premise that 3PP support is lacking) it's something else. It's something else that's changed.

 

[darjr]

Didn’t Green Ronin beat WoTC for the first module for 3.0?

 

[Morrus]

Didn’t Green Ronin beat WoTC for the first module for 3.0?

Dunno. I know Necromancer Games released the first ever 3E product. Can't recall the name offhand but I think it was an adventure?

 

[Acolyte of Zothique]

Some of these work, but a couple don't, because this isn't the first time they've been true.



That's historically never been an impediment. People jumped into 3E and 5E the very first second they could (in fact, S&S brought out the Creature Catalog before 3E's own Monster Manual). Newness to the rules has never been a barrier to third party support.



As above. Didn't stop anybody with 3E, 4E, 5E, and PF1.



Almost the exact same license as for PF1, and not dissimilar to the d20 STL. Neither of those slowed people one jot.

If any of those reasons were true now, they would have been true before. That means, logically (assuming we accept the premise that 3PP support is lacking) it's something else. It's something else that's changed.

The reason third party publishers jumped on 3e etc - including PF1 which was marketed as 3.5 continued - was the D&D branding. Branding is key. PF2 is most definitely not being marketed as D&D and is up against 5e which is the D&D juggernaut; people want to play D&D and 5e is the official D&D game.

PF2 is somewhat of an unknown quantity, it doesn't have the huge cachet of well known branding - and WotC have been going all guns blazing to market the D&D brand for some years now. PF2 is a commercial risk at the moment and people are holding back. Success breeds success, if Paizo can get PF2 to a level of success where it becomes recognised outside of it's current niche hardcore audience then 3PP may take notice and develop for the game. Otherwise, not.

 

[Nikosandros]

Dunno. I know Necromancer Games released the first ever 3E product. Can't recall the name offhand but I think it was an adventure?

I think it was the Wizard's Amulet.