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Pathfinder 2E What's the deal with 3rd party PF2E Adventure "support"??

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
If you don't want to use setting specific items (like places, NPCs, gods, etc. - this includes some monsters too) of any D&D setting, then go OGL; If you want to use any setting specific items go DMsGuild; if you want to use the full repertoire of D&D, but don't want to use setting specific items, go DMsGuild w/ generic setting.
You can pretty much use the full repertoire of D&D (less setting IP) with the OGL. It’s not like you ever need to reproduce the text of the core rules; you just need to use the terminology, which is all available from previous SRDs. That’s how OGL publishers operate.

@Retreater, your first step is to read the OGL and make sure you understand it. It’s pretty short and clear, and most questions you will have will be answered by that document.
 

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dave2008

Legend
You can pretty much use the full repertoire of D&D (less setting IP) with the OGL. It’s not like you ever need to reproduce the text of the core rules; you just need to use the terminology, which is all available from previous SRDs. That’s how OGL publishers operate.

@Retreater, your first step is to read the OGL and make sure you understand it. It’s pretty short and clear, and most questions you will have will be answered by that document.
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't a few things not covered, such as: Mind flayers/ilithids and yuan-ti?
 



That's historically never been an impediment. People jumped into 3E and 5E the very first second they could (in fact, S&S brought out the Creature Catalog before 3E's own Monster Manual). Newness to the rules has never been a barrier to third party support.

Sure, but PF2 is a bit more distant from previous editions than 3e was. It's also a much tighter system, so getting numbers off is a bigger deal.

And as I recall, the 3PP support at first for d20 was a bit lukewarm. It took like a year or so before exploding.


As above. Didn't stop anybody with 3E, 4E, 5E, and PF1.
Yeah, but they were D&D. It's like making merch for a Marvel movie - you know it's going to sell. Well, PF1 wasn't D&D per se, but it was pretty much the same system as 3.5e and came out as an alternative to 4e. And I distinctly recall that there was a lot less 3PP support for 4e, on account of the GSL being much more restrictive than the OGL at first. I think this eventually changed, but by then many 3PPs had already switched to Pathfinder, if they hadn't turned their efforts in other directions entirely (Green Ronin, Monte Cook) or just left the business.

But I think the main reason is that, as a company, you can either develop something for 5e and tap into that ginormous market, or you can take a risk on developing something for PF2 which may or may not work out. And if you're more on the hobbyist end of the spectrum, 5e offers you the DM's Guild where you get to play with all the toys. My other points are like smaller hurdles on top of that big one.
 

BryonD

Hero
And as I recall, the 3PP support at first for d20 was a bit lukewarm. It took like a year or so before exploding.
That part is not at all true. As has been noted, WotC didn't even get the first module out.
And Scarred Lands beat the MM to print. Granted, that turned out to be a problem because they got a fair number of things wrong. But 3PPs jumped all over this new opportunity.
 

dave2008

Legend
That part is not at all true. As has been noted, WotC didn't even get the first module out.
And Scarred Lands beat the MM to print. Granted, that turned out to be a problem because they got a fair number of things wrong. But 3PPs jumped all over this new opportunity.
I don't know the truth of the history as I skipped 3e competely, but saying one product was available out of the gate does not contracdict @Staffan 's comment that: "...It took like a year or so before exploding ."
 

BryonD

Hero
It was huge right away

Edit: I was not claiming one product (and to be picky I listed TWO), but was demonstrating the environment.
companies have changed names and it gets hard to keep track. But Sword and Sorcery Studios, Green Ronin, Necromancer games, and others hit the ground running. (There was freeport stuff at that Gencon)

Mongoose and Goodman were right in there, Fantasy flight did some quick stuff. And the desk shop 1-dude publishing companies went nuts.
 

It was huge right away

Edit: I was not claiming one product (and to be picky I listed TWO), but was demonstrating the environment.
companies have changed names and it gets hard to keep track. But Sword and Sorcery Studios, Green Ronin, Necromancer games, and others hit the ground running. (There was freeport stuff at that Gencon)

Mongoose and Goodman were right in there, Fantasy flight did some quick stuff. And the desk shop 1-dude publishing companies went nuts.
[/QUOTE
Yep, absolutely. I remember the beginning of 3e - lots of 3pp jumped straight in. Because it was a new edition of D&D. If it was some other game that was like D&D but wasn't called D&D then this wouldn't have happened. Brand name power - there was a huge market already there; tap into that, say it's compatible with 3e and off you go. And it did go off, big time, until the d20 bubble imploded.
 

JeffB

Legend
It did explode quickly. Wizards had dropped the books at the cheap prices for the first print run, and immediately had to print more. There were several products out on release of the PHB from 3PP. By the next spring it was steamrolling

And Wizards was also pushing out all kinds of new D20 stuff and licenses- Wheel of Time , Star Wars, Kalamar, S&S picking up GW and Ravenloft- it was a VERY exciting time-I remember our mall WOTC store kept loading up with adventure after adventure , then those stopped and it was hardcover after hardcover and then by 2002- everyone realized it was mostly garbage and the rocket fuel was jettisoned.
 

It was huge right away

Edit: I was not claiming one product (and to be picky I listed TWO), but was demonstrating the environment.
companies have changed names and it gets hard to keep track. But Sword and Sorcery Studios, Green Ronin, Necromancer games, and others hit the ground running. (There was freeport stuff at that Gencon)

Mongoose and Goodman were right in there, Fantasy flight did some quick stuff. And the desk shop 1-dude publishing companies went nuts.
Slayer's Guide to Hobgoblins was released in 2001 - I think it was the summer or late spring, but I can't easily find any info saying exactly when.

Goodman started with the stand-alone d20 RPG Broncosaurus Rex in 2001, and didn't really get into the sourcebook game until 2002 with the Complete Guide series, and the first DCC adventures were released in 2003.

Fantasy Flight Games were certainly early adopters, with a fair amount of product released in 2001. It's hard to tell if they were early or late 2001 though.

I certainly wasn't suggesting that it took a year or so before anything happened with the OGL/d20 system. I'm saying it took about a year for it to explode. To some degree, that's because it took some time to actually make the product after the rules were released.

Basically, the first year was a combination of people with an inside track (Green Ronin via Chris Pramas), enthusiasts who wanted to be RPG publishers with varying levels of quality (with Necromancer Games being on the top edge of that), and White Wolf and FFG dipping their toes. When people saw that things were working out for these, that's when the boom really started - but that took like a year from the release in 2000. And of course, RPGNow was a major boost as well, which lowered the bar to publishing by quite a bit.
 

BryonD

Hero
OK Seems to be nit picking quite a bit there. I don't think there is a standardized definition of "explosion" for this conversation.

I'm going to stick with the "explosion" started in well less than a year, effectively right away, by my standards.
 

zztong

Explorer
True, it is doing my well for an RPG: but other than 3.x (and PF by extension) and 5E, has any RPG ever really supported a full-blown 3PP market?

Since you're naming specific versions of D&D, 1e and 2e.

Does anyone else remember Judges Guild? They supported lots of early game systems. I remember them supporting C&S, DragonQuest, and even Superhero 2044.
 


Zaukrie

New Publisher
I think two things:

On drivethrurpg, there is more PF2 content than people realize.

Publishers are making more money per hours spent on 5e, therefore the big players aren't yet doing PF2 stuff.

I anticipate that more stuff will come out for PF2, but again, not from teh biggest producers out there.
 


JeffB

Legend
On drivethrurpg, there is more PF2 content than people realize.

You are correct- and thanks for the FYI. 154 items came up when I searched. Most of it is the SOS typical of PF/3.x (player facing crunch), but I did see quite a few adventures in a casual look-see. Several of the companies producing these are familiar to me/I've heard of (Rogue Genius, Sneak Attack press, etc) but I wonder why they are not putting items up on the Paizo store, and sticking to DTRPG? I would think that the Paizo PF2 adventure section would garner them more exposure and sales*



* or perhaps it's a $ thing- Drive-thru takes a smaller bite out of the pie than Paizo.
 



dmccoy1693

Adventurer
Publisher
3p production seems to have slowed overall. Many of the companies are producing 5e material or are producing things for other systems. (John Brazer and Traveler for instance)
Thank you for mentioning us. We have been focusing on Traveller over the past year, mostly because the year prior we focused on Pathfinder, trying to get projects finished up we had in the pipeline.

For this year, however, we have a number of projects we're working on for PF1, not PF2. We decided that PF2 is not the system for us. We just don't love it the way we love PF1. So we won't be supporting the new system.
 

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