What's the Deal with GriefCom?

francisca said:
And if they continued any of TSR's poor practices after the buyout, they should just be let off the hook?
A continued action is wotc’s sin.

IMO those who were screwed by T$R had every right to sue for a part of TSR’s corpse back in 1997 and had ample time to sue wotc long before Hasbro bought it. There are reasons there are statutes of limitations.
 

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Yes there are reasons for statutes of limitations, and some of them are quite long.

In fact, some are very open ended. If an action can be considered part of a continuing pattern of malfeasance, the statute may not even begin to run until a particular triggering event occurs.

Sorry, FTDM, if those writers and artists, etc. had a legit beef with TSR, WotC is likely to be liable as their successor in interest.

If I were to buy out a contractor's business, I'd be able to collect on all the jobs in progress that were started by the prior owner, but I'd be liable for contractual penalties, bad workmanship, etc. The only thing I wouldn't be on the hook for would be matters of personal liability- like if the previous contractor punched out somebody at the job site.

Simply put, unless you actually get it in the contract for sale, you can't buy a business without taking up both the benefits AND liabilities of the business.
 

DannyAlcatraz is exactly right. Otherwise, you could evade debt indefinitely. Buy a house, sell it to your friend. Your friend doesn't have a loan on the house, therefore he doesn't have any liability. He sells it back to you and you pay him one dollar. Everyone is debt free and the bank is out the money.

It doesn't work like that. If you buy a business, or anything really, you are liable for any debts tied to that thing.
 

I agree with Hussar and that was my point essentially. If WotC isn't willing to pay off the debts, then they really need to re-examine such practices.
 

Given that GriefCom is interested in Royalties anomalies, it might stand to reason that WotC may have reprinted some TSR stuff without handling royalties properly. The Dragon Magazine Archive CD being one of them (as KenzerCo had a beef with them about reprinting KoDT, violating a contract).

It doesn't just have to be old TSR business.
 

So Wizards is commiting so many transgressions that they get a whole taskforce for themselves? Why does that not surprise me?

Several things actions of theirs concerning D&D Miniatures and some general things have been bothering me lately (their FR staff is doing a nice job IMO, and some people responsible for some part of DDM are half-decent, but by and large, I was petered off at them several times in the recent past!).
 

I don't know if they're collecting for a class-action, but they might be.

It sounds like they think WotC has been, at best, sloppy with their royalty accounting and at worst purposefully underreporting.

When an author sells a work (to a "paying" publisher recognized by SFWA) they sign a contract stating what percentage of royalties they get, and then they're given an advance based on projected sales, etc etc. That advance comes out of the future royalties.

So, say, you're getting 10% royalties on a 20$ book. Every book that sells, you're supposed to get 2$ of it. Say, then, you get a 2,000$ advance ... until the book sells 1,000 copies, you don't get a check for royalties.

Until your book has sold enough copies to meet your advance, it hasn't "earned out". Apparently, most books produced don't "earn out", really, unless they go above mid market, but it doesn't reflect too badly on the author (I.E. they don't earn out to the tune of 20-200$, as opposed to thousands). Just that the author is never going to see a "royalty check" from that book before it goes Out Of Print. They got all their royalties up front (and earned a slightly higher percentage, at that).

Of course, most publishers also have a "hold against returns". For instance, say a Large American Bookseller "buys" 1,000 copies of your book. They haven't bought anything ... they're just putting it on floorspace in their stores and at any time they can return the unsold portion to the publisher without paying them. A sale is when a person picks up the book, walks to the counter, and pays for it. The hold against returns is the publisher's hedged bet that, between one accounting period and the next, (X) many people who bought the book may decide they didn't like it and return it to the bookseller, who will return it to the publisher. This can cause royalty checks to be artificially deflated ... your book may earn out within half a year, but the hold-against-returns may mean your royalty checks are 0.00$ until the publisher's hold passes ... where-upon you'll see a lump sum for all the sales that occured under the hold.

So it seems like their complaint is that WotC has a widespread practice of under-reporting or hiding sales to keep books from earning out or using an estimation practice that's not approved (apparently nobody uses real numbers anymore, most accounting is pretty much future projections). They may also have an iffy holds practice, but I'm not aware if that is approved by any governing body.

--fje
 

Hussar said:
DannyAlcatraz is exactly right. Otherwise, you could evade debt indefinitely. Buy a house, sell it to your friend. Your friend doesn't have a loan on the house, therefore he doesn't have any liability. He sells it back to you and you pay him one dollar. Everyone is debt free and the bank is out the money.

Actually your analogy doesn't quite work. When you buy a house you do not buy the debts of the previous owner. It remains their responsibility to pay them off. Thus if you sell your friend the house you still have to pay the bank.

Now as for WOTC and TSR, my guess would be businesses are treated differently. Unless otherwise spelled out in the purchase agreement my guess (and I am not a lawyer (just a recent homebuyer)) is that WOTC would still be liable, even if they were unaware. I beleive this has happened with some of the asbestos cases here in the US (successor companies that have had to pay damages). The situation is complicated as it appears that the press release suggests WOTC continued the practices in question.

Of course none of us know if anything really happened or not, so I guess we need to wait and see.
 

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, I know nothing about this organization or this situation, but I'm a gamer so I want to execute my Internet-given right to open my big mouth and give my opinion anyway. ;) :)

This announcement is also asking for a lot of volunteer help. Could it be possible that this is driven by a single person who has a (perceived?) grievance against WotC?
 

jaerdaph said:
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, (. . .)


IIRC, Dannyalcatraz is and works in the entertainment field. When a legal question arises on these boards (particularly having to do with that field) and Dannyalcatraz weighs in on it, his posts carry their weight with me.
 

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