D&D 5E What's the point of gold?

[5ekyu]

As I see it, the pointlessness of gold in 5E is just a symptom of a, in my eyes, much bigger problem.
It highlights the incredibly narrow focus on combat 5E has.

Wealth was important in all cultures during most, if not all of written history. It was the driving force for many people and shaped the world as it is now, yet 5E can't find a use for it.
That doesn't only mean spending money to get numerically better but all aspects where wealth would be an asset like in social or economical or even just day to day living are not represented in 5E. It is all about killing things in dungeons and thats it.
And it is not just the absence of any rule or guideline about using wealth, even when you invent some for your campaign when you give the players as much gold as they are supposedly to have anything you could come up with would be trivial as the PCs would be filthy rich and you would need to comically overcharge them for gold to be actually an issue.

Just look at other RPGs like Traveller, Shadowrun or Warhammer. Gold is important as it buys upgrades and all of those settings detail enough things besides combat that there are many uses for gold apart from it.

personally i have not found 5e or any edition of D&D to be all about combat or even killing monsters in dungeons (though of course some of that plays a major role in many if not most campaigns.) I have also only rarely seen a campaign in those editions where gold was not valued and useful within the campaign - often for those very status, wealth gains, acquisitions etc.

generally, gold (whether coins or art of jewelry per the DMG) after the early stages (once the campaign moves more into the heroic levels and up) tends to be the more interaction with setting and influence with setting reward - just as advancing character level and (sometimes) magic items are the more combat focused ones.

I think if one comes to D&D with the idea that It is all about killing things in dungeons and thats it. then its a self-fulfilling prophesy kind of thing. If thats what you expect and what you focus on, thats likely all you will find if you select players and GMs who wear similar blinders.

 

[Derren]

I think if one comes to D&D with the idea that It is all about killing things in dungeons and thats it. then its a self-fulfilling prophesy kind of thing. If thats what you expect and what you focus on, thats likely all you will find if you select players and GMs who wear similar blinders.

Considering that this is all the rules are about this is exactly what D&D is intended to be. If WotC wants D&D to be more there would be at least DM advice and guidelines for non-combat things. But there aren't. Everything is build for combat, the classes, the rules, the adventures, etc. Which has the effect that things with no combat application, like gold coins now that you can't upgrade your equipment with money and there is hardly a need to buy consumables, are pretty much pointless.

 

[5ekyu]

Considering that this is all the rules are about this is exactly what D&D is intended to be. If WotC want D&D to be more there would be at least DM advice and guidelines for non-combat things. But there aren't. Everything is build for combat, the classes, the rules, the adventures, etc.

All i can say to that is that you must be reading different books and adventures and "everything" than i am.

I mean - i see a standard resolution methodology, i see persuasion, intimidation and a lot of stuff with no direct combat application, i see sections on explore, i see settlement creation charts that include things like focusn on flowers, artists and such and sorry but i do not see those as somehow only there for combat.

But hey, i am sure your books dont have those and so your reading is likely at least somewhat accurateand in your books " Everything is build for combat"

 

[Maxperson]

Wealth was important in all cultures during most, if not all of written history. It was the driving force for many people and shaped the world as it is now, yet 5E can't find a use for it.
That doesn't only mean spending money to get numerically better but all aspects where wealth would be an asset like in social or economical or even just day to day living are not represented in 5E. It is all about killing things in dungeons and thats it.

I think you're missing the forest for the trees. 5e doesn't spell out ways to spend money, because there's no need to spell out ways to spend money. Spending money is easy peasy. It's why you find all kinds of books in the book store on how to make money, and how to save money, but relatively few on how to spend it.

D&D is no different. There is much more need to tell you how the PCs acquire the wealth, but very little need to tell you how they spend it. The players can figure out ways to spend that gold within seconds if they make even a modicum of effort.

5e's rules appropriately focus on what is needed, and doesn't focus on what isn't needed.

 

[Maxperson]

Considering that this is all the rules are about this is exactly what D&D is intended to be. If WotC wants D&D to be more there would be at least DM advice and guidelines for non-combat things.

Maybe you should buy the DMG. There's a ton of advice and guidelines for non-combat things in there. The vast majority of it is non-combat in fact.

 

[Stalker0]

I think you're missing the forest for the trees. 5e doesn't spell out ways to spend money, because there's no need to spell out ways to spend money. Spending money is easy peasy. It's why you find all kinds of books in the book store on how to make money, and how to save money, but relatively few on how to spend it.

D&D is no different. There is much more need to tell you how the PCs acquire the wealth, but very little need to tell you how they spend it. The players can figure out ways to spend that gold within seconds if they make even a modicum of effort.

5e's rules appropriately focus on what is needed, and doesn't focus on what isn't needed.

Though I'm against you in this debate, I will complement you that this is a compelling argument.

 

[Retreater]

But why are you downplaying the genuine fun to be had by stepping into the magic shoppe with ten thousand shiny coins in hand?

Look at my Bazaars of Port Nyanzaru thread. Despite zero official support I spent weeks preparing those price lists, and it took the group an entire session to sort out who bought what.

They're still talking about that, and how satisfying it felt for them.

Now imagine if the official publisher wrote a book with robust support... How much easier it would become for DMs to set it up; how many more players that could finally experience what I consider a core part of the D&D experience

Then, imagine if WotC took the next step, and published an Advanced Monster Manual that was geared towards providing a challenge for groups consisting of player characters with feats, multiclassing, magic items and general minmaxing...

We're not all wide-eyed noobs that barely handles a few goblins, you know.

It is high time for WotC to take the game to the next level!

I'm actually a 4e apologist and running a 4e campaign. I have no issues with a "magic item shoppe." In contrast, I think that play style should be presented as an option in official publications.
While many DMs can put in the work you seem to have done, there are likely just as many others who don't know where to start or have more valuable things to do with their prep time.
So many people defend 5e for what's not in the game. So often I read "just make up your own rules for that. It's not in the books, but everyone knows that X creature should do Y in an encounter (for example)." How? How do DMs know this without having played more robustly designed editions? IMO, 5e is an incomplete game and barely functional as is.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Derren]

Maybe you should buy the DMG. There's a ton of advice and guidelines for non-combat things in there. The vast majority of it is non-combat in fact.

Yes, advice like "to keep the players interested in intrigue promise them combat support."

Most of the DMG is about painting a broad picture without going into much detail and where to place monsters.
D&D 5E is very bad at anything that does not involve combat. For example you only have a single tool at your disposal, namely charisma checks. No skill, no specialzation, nothing else. And also for all other tasks you only have very generic tool profiencies which are given out by class. Classes which focus by 90% on killing things.
Running anything besides combat in D&D is basically free form make believe as the books have no supporting rules or even guidelines to support it.

How does a typical day of a barbarian look? What does a bard do when he is not out there to hack things apart? How do the PCs fit into the world at all? What does it mean to be a citizen/adventurer? What are your rights and responsibilities?
Or at a larger scale, how do the typical D&D societies work, how does magic affect them. What can the PCs expect if they manage to rise in status and become a noble (or start as one)? Or how does the economy and guilds work including wizards and spellcasting clerics?

If D&D was really interested in gameplay besides dungeon crawls the books would talk about those things and offer more detailed rules for things besides combat so that the DM and Players have a baseline they can use to customize things, especially when they have no in deep knowledge of feudal systems besides that there were kings. But instead there is silence and everyone has to do all the work himself.

And thats exactly where gold in 5E is. It was decided that gold does not enhance combat any more and D&D does not care about non combat uses.
As I said, other systems are much, much better than D&D for non combat gameplay as they both offer guidelines and rules while D&D ignores both.

 

[5ekyu]

Yes, advice like "to keep the players interested in intrigue promise them combat support."

Most of the DMG is about painting a broad picture without going into much detail and where to place monsters.
D&D 5E is very bad at anything that does not involve combat. For example you only have a single tool at your disposal, namely charisma checks. No skill, no specialzation, nothing else. And also for all other tasks you only have very generic tool profiencies which are given out by class. Classes which focus by 90% on killing things.
Running anything besides combat in D&D is basically free form make believe as the books have no supporting rules or even guidelines to support it.

How does a typical day of a barbarian look? What does a bard do when he is not out there to hack things apart? How do the PCs fit into the world at all? What does it mean to be a citizen/adventurer? What are your rights and responsibilities?
Or at a larger scale, how do the typical D&D societies work, how does magic affect them. What can the PCs expect if they manage to rise in status and become a noble (or start as one)? Or how does the economy and guilds work including wizards and spellcasting clerics?

If D&D was really interested in gameplay besides dungeon crawls the books would talk about those things and offer more detailed rules for things besides combat so that the DM and Players have a baseline they can use to customize things, especially when they have no in deep knowledge of feudal systems besides that there were kings. But instead there is silence and everyone has to do all the work himself.

And thats exactly where gold in 5E is. It was decided that gold does not enhance combat any more and D&D does not care about non combat uses.
As I said, other systems are much, much better than D&D for non combat gameplay as they both offer guidelines and rules while D&D ignores both.

gotta say again - a lot of perspective shaping perception here.

"Most of the DMG is about painting a broad picture without going into much detail and where to place monsters."

of course a lot of the DMg is about broad strokes and the hows - not the "what's" because it is the guide providing tools not the setting sourcebook for a particular world.

" For example you only have a single tool at your disposal, namely charisma checks. No skill, no specialzation, nothing else. "

There is a system where the DC is determined by the GM based on some base standards. There are sections to help the Gm establish his consistency in assignment and even on setting minimus for auto-success.

In addition the are indeed skills (proficiency) and specialization (various expertise and equivalents) and the whole advantage and disadvantage system to create far more than just one tool (Remember as well that wisdom checks often follow along with charisma check situations) - or at least let that tool become a multi-tool socket wrench wonder-kit.

But if one comes at it with the perception of seeing "one tool" one may very well not get into any of these details.

As for all the "day in the life of..." there are downtime activities but even so a lot of that would be determined by setting books. however, "what do you do today..." is more of a character question than a rules or setting question. I would hope that were true in most any RPG system. Do we need rules for playing thru the drinking in a bar parts or cant we just roleplay those?

Wont argue at all that there are other systems you prefer for how they handle non-combat stuff... everybody has their preferences after all. But to say D&D has ignored them is just not accurate.