Whats the point of monkey grip?

[mvincent]

Just so long as you never, ever had to fight indoors or in any sort of restricted terrain.

Yes, the example is ridiculous (much like many monkey-grip examples, none of which I personally allow) but it does give what was asked for; an example of getting the most out of the feat.

A monkey-gripped Shillelagh (using oil of Shillelagh perhaps) is another possibility.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hopefully you can already see that side... i.e. many would consider the writer's intent to allow it to assist in wielding a huge longsword similarly to how it assists one to wield a large greatsword.

Would those same people also consider that it allows the Medium creature to use a Medium two-handed weapon in one hand?

I can't agree that this is the intention of the feat, but if you allow it to work on Huge weapons, the same logic demands that it be allowed to work on Medium weapons as well...

In fact, the 3.5 FAQ gives an example of a medium character using powerful build (which uses similar wording to monkey grip) to aid in wielding a huge-sized weapon.

Powerful Build is very badly written. Literally as written, it only removes the inappropriate size penalty for a weapon designed for a creature one size larger; it doesn't actually change the designation of the weapon. So a Large longsword is still a two-handed weapon for a half-giant, and a Large greatsword is still too large to wield. The fact that the sample half-giant wields a Large greatsword suggests that the intention was to change the designation... but even once we allow this, the ability still has no effect on a weapon designed for a creature two sizes larger. The FAQ's answer is in contradiction to the rule.

-Hyp.

 

[mvincent]

Would those same people also consider that it allows the Medium creature to use a Medium two-handed weapon in one hand?

Some might, but it would likely be a smaller portion, and many view it as a separate issue. Personally: since a large creature could wield a medium two-handed weapon in one hand at -2, I would likely allow a monkey-gripper to do it at -4 (assuming I was allowing monkey-grip in the first place)... but that's just me.

The FAQ's answer is in contradiction to the rule.

I said as much earlier, but then, I'm ok with taking many things less literally and instead going with what seems like the writer's intent, like:
“A defender wearing spiked gauntlets can't be disarmed.” a literal interpretation might be that spiked gauntlets prevent any of your weapons from being disarmed

“A creature can’t hide within 60 feet of a character with darkvision unless it is invisible or has cover.” a literal interpretation might be that a dwarf cannot hide within 60’ of himself

“Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor.” a literal interpretation might be that a rogue cannot use a ring of evasion while in armor, even though other PC’s can.

“This spell causes an object to radiate shadowy illumination out to a 20-foot radius”. the literal interpretation might be that the Darkness spell can improve the ambient lighting conditions in a pitch-black room.

"Speed while wearing elven chain is 30 feet for Medium creatures, or 20 feet for Small." the literal interpretation might be that elven chain would make Dwarves go faster, but Barbarians, Monks, Flyers, etc. would go slower.

etc.

There are other less absurd examples, but you get the idea. Deciphering writer's intent is part of knowing the rules. Many of us do not expect the rules to be perfect nor cover every situation.

I'm not saying how to run your own game, just showing that the FAQ supports an interpretation different from your own, so other people are justified in using it if they so desire.

 

[Hypersmurf]

“This spell causes an object to radiate shadowy illumination out to a 20-foot radius”. the literal interpretation might be that the Darkness spell can improve the ambient lighting conditions in a pitch-black room.

That's how I've used Darkness ever since 3.5 came out...

There's a world of difference between "... can wield weapons as though he were a creature one size larger", and "... can wield weapons designed for a creature one size larger as though he were one size larger".

Similarly with Monkey Grip; the feat specifically limits the weapons based on the weapon's size category - the size of creature it was designed for. Yes, a Large creature can wield a Medium weapon, but that Medium weapon is not a weapon designed for a Large creature.

The wording of Monkey Grip is specific enough that I don't see any reason to assume that the intent differs from what was written.

-Hyp.

 

[Pielorinho]

The wording of Monkey Grip is specific enough that I don't see any reason to assume that the intent differs from what was written.

My monkeygripping fighter's prowess is well-known to the party's wizard. The party wizard presents him as a gift with a magic greatsword, intended to be wielded in one hand. I decline it, since I can't wield it that way.

"But wait a minute," the wizard says. "We just fought a hill giant wielding a greatsword in one hand, and you've always been able to pick up the weapons of the giants we fought and wield them just as the giants wield them. What's different this time?"

How do I answer him, without referring to the rules?

As for the point of the feat: I've got a new sig line.

Daniel

 

[Hypersmurf]

"But wait a minute," the wizard says. "We just fought a hill giant wielding a greatsword in one hand, and you've always been able to pick up the weapons of the giants we fought and wield them just as the giants wield them. What's different this time?"

How do I answer him, without referring to the rules?

This is the wizard who can cast all his spells flawlessly with one arm tied behind his back, cased in concrete, or even cut off, but who starts flubbing every sixth or seventh one if we chip away the concrete and give him a shield to hold instead? That's the wizard who's asking the question, right?

-Hyp.

 

[Luthien Greyspear]

As many have already stated, Monkey Grip is a flavor feat. It allows you to make a totally manga-esque character that wields an insanely oversized sword with one hand, like Cloud Strife from FF VII.

I myself have made a character that uses two Large scimitars with Monkey Grip and Oversized TWF. He is a Scout/Dervish/Swashbuckler. Because of his Dervish levels, he treats all scimitars as light weapons for any purposes, even oversized scimitars. He gets to add bonuses for Weapon Finesse to these great honkin' scimitars, and adds his Intelligence bonus to damage on top of his Strength and skirmish bonuses. Because of the Dance of Death, he's almost always getting skirmish bonuses in every round. And it looks REALLY cool.

 

[mvincent]

I don't see any reason to assume that the intent differs from what was written.

You don't but others do (one of them being the Sage). Again, I'm not telling you how you should rule, but you seem incapable of understanding or emphasizing with their POV, to the point that you said earlier that they "can't" play that way (even though it may coincide with the FAQ), and you now appear unwilling to ammend that statement.

 

[Shin Okada]

One benefit of Monkey Grip is that a large sized weapon has twice as many HP as a medeium sized one. Thus, hard to be broken.

 

[Seeten]

In Hypersmurf's defense, this is the rules forum, where the RAW is followed, and discussed, and hashed out. Liberal interpretations are welcome in many forums, and we even have a forum for making up your own cool interpretations, and rules(The House Rules Forum) but the rules forum isn't that place. While you can say, "I use monkey grip like this in my game" you cannot say,(well you can, it just isn't productive) "This feat, as written works one way, but surely you see the writers intent to mean x v and z, and thus surely you agree that everyone should actually be playing with a big set of house rules, instead of the RAW...surely!"

This just isnt the forum for it, and more, Hypersmurf isnt the guy to agree with it.

Not to forum cop, just a friendly reminder of which forum you're discussing the house rule in.