What's the secret behind D&D's ability to sustain long term play?

[Primitive Screwhead]

I think the 'gaining levels' camp is short hand for 'attain personal goal'... not nessesarily levels.

I say this as the longest running campaign I have been in, and still will be if the group ever re-assembles, is a 5 year long SW game. My characters goal was to be confident at calling Boba Fett out for a quickdraw contest in some deserted wasteland town. His EE3 vs my DL-44 {modified}
Almost made it too.. then the rat goes and infiltrates our group and ends up underprepared for the rapid decompression as we departed the bridge of a Star Destroyer. Last seen he was smoking a cigar on the captains chair while the the detontors blinked off the last seconds of the bulkhead.... and his life.

In a game that has no 'levels', the two things that kept us playing was attaining special abilities or skills.. and the challenge of defeating the nasty bad guys that kept showing up.
It helped alot that the 8 main PC's all had side plots that they had devoted time and energy into.. which was also where most of the bad guys kept coming from

In a game that has levels, the goal can be the level itself... more of a metagame thing to me. YMMV

In a good campaign, the setting becomes 'home'.. with players able to talk about the whats and where for years after. Continuing the impact to other campaigns reinforces this.. which is why Night City in my game will always have a monument where the Akatemi Tower came down that one fateful night. Officially the monument is for the victims of the Third Corperate War. Unofficially, there is a lazer ingraving on the back that says 'It Leaned!'

 

[Akrasia]

One wonders why someone would choose this thread to initiate an edition war. Please don't. Even "in jest." Thank you.

Well, I apologize if you're obliquely referring to my remarks here. My comment was merely in reply to an earlier post, and I certainly had no intention of instigating any kind of 'war'. (And if you're not referring to my remarks, well then just ignore this post.)

 

[eyebeams]

I agree about the importance of levelling. As I said, Mage: The Ascension is the other long-running game I've been in, and it has definite set levels of overall ability.

 

[Particle_Man]

Well, 3e D&D's "robustness" was the bullet to my head -- at least as a DM. :\

"Robustness" might be great for the players (or at least those who master all the relevant rules), but after running two 3e campaigns (each of which lasted about a year, and each of which my players enjoyed very much), I will never do it again.

I'm too busy these days, and prepping/running 3e is just too much of a pain in the arse.

Robustness might be nice for (some) players. But for myself -- and many DMs I know in my situation (including most of my first 3e campaign) -- increased 'simplification' is the only way to go. This is why I'll GM C&C or WFRP 2e in the future -- but never 3e again.

This is exactly why I am very curious to see how Iron Heroes does. Although you don't have magic items as part of the Phat Loot factor (loosing one of the carrots), you still get the "Shopping for super-powers" factor. Plus, Mearls has taken steps to make things much easier on the poor DM. I will run this, I think, when the beastiary comes out.

 

[Agback]

Here's the big question: Why did you, and so many of us, keep going back to D&D?

Because I can find new players. I much prefer other game systems for actual play, especially in long-term campaigns (because the dramatic difference in power between a beginning and an experienced D&D character means that parties drift only fleetingly through the sweet spot for any particularl kind of camapign). But D&D serves as a gateway for players to enter gaming. It's chief virtue is its commercial success.

Mind you, you won't get a lot of people agreeing with that assessment on this board, because of the selection bias.

 

[Agback]

I don't think that D&D actually has any special ability to sustain long-term play. The longest-running campaigns I have been involved with were played using James Bond 007, Champions, ForeSight, and HindSight. And I have friends who have played in long-running RuneQuest, DragonQuest, Flashing Blades, Bushido, and even GURPS campaigns. This being the case, is it obvious that even rules that stink on ice are capable of supporting long camaigns.

But people who enjoy long D&D campaigns tend to be concentrated in ENworld.

 

[Hussar]

I think Monte has the right of it. Leveling and robustness really does help to keep the game on top. The fact that characters can actually develop, rather than having entire lives BEFORE they start to adventure a la GURPS, really helps. Plus, the fact that mechanics allow players to change their minds without too much of a loss helps as well. If a player decides after three or four levels of cleric that he no longer wants to try for Prc X, he can simply change to a different route. Many games have greater penalties for trying to change the mechanical direction of a character.

The other reason, which I haven't seen mentioned enough here, is that DnD so heavily supports ALL kinds of play. While you could play a kick in the doors campaign with Vampire, it's not really what Vampire best supports. You can, however, play a high intrigue, high RP game in DnD without losing a great deal or having to make many changes. Many other game systems don't deal with deviation in play style quite so well. It would be tricky to play a serious game of Paranoia for instance. Possible, but tricky.

Just my 2cp

 

[diaglo]

Tell me what you think? Am I right? Wrong?

i replied. but it seems no one wants to hear what i had to say.

 

[Quasqueton]

It's humorous how so many folks answered/addressed this question.

Sort of like:
"What's the secret behind the 'TV reality game show' ability to keep viewers for so many seasons?"

The answers seem to be:
"I don't think they do keep viewers very long, because I don't watch them. Reality game shows are terribly annoying to me. My favorite show is Star Trek."

* * *

All other things being equal, though, there are two things (I believe) that makes D&D well-suited for long-term play.

1. Levels.

2. Robustness.

I agree with this.

Quasqueton

 

[DaveyJones]

It's humorous how so many folks answered/addressed this question.

Sort of like:
"What's the secret behind the 'TV reality game show' ability to keep viewers for so many seasons?"

The answers seem to be:
"I don't think they do keep viewers very long, because I don't watch them. Reality game shows are terribly annoying to me. My favorite show is Star Trek."

* * *

I agree with this.

Quasqueton

If that was the question from the Original Poster I must've missed it. Seemed to me, Gundark asked specifically about why d20 is better than Savage Worlds or any other edition at sustaining long term play.

He then asked for comments on whether his thinking was right or wrong.