What's this about a plagiarized map in Conan: City of Shadizar?

[Vigilance]

That's fine. Not everybody has ... standards. *shrug* To educate the historically uninformed, Steve Jackson Games published a GURPS Conan in the early '90s. It was in one volume superior to all the books so far published by Mongoose for their Conan line.

Well, I have standards. When someone disagrees with you it doesnt mean they're stupid or horribly "uneducated".

I actually *BOUGHT* the GURPs Conan when it came out... as I am a longstanding fan of the GURPs system, so there goes the uneducated part.

Both books (the GURPs Conan and Mongoose's d20 Conan) were very solid and well done.

And yeah, I have standards even though I disagree with you.

Chuck

 

[TheAuldGrump]

A word of advice...

Being intentionally rude is the quickest way to get people to label your opinion as without merit.

He has about two more strikes before I do so. I have no problem with people holding different opinions than I do, but claiming that theirs is the one true way annoys me.

It even took me a while to get used to Diaglo.

The Auld Grump

 

[MrFilthyIke]

That's fine. Not everybody has ... standards. *shrug* To educate the historically uninformed, Steve Jackson Games published a GURPS Conan in the early '90s. It was in one volume superior to all the books so far published by Mongoose for their Conan line. Not as graphically endowed, sure, but the content was sharp and concise, well-edited, and didn't require a stream of errata and apologies from the publisher to be digestible. There was also a prior attempt at Babylon 5: the Babylon Project RPG by the now defunct Chameleon Eclectic. Again, while not as visually impressive as the Mongoose production, it at least attempted to emulate the feel of the series, instead of shoehorning the setting into a clumsy derivative ruleset.

As someone else posted, you seem to have a problem with d20, why ARe you lurking here anyway? I though, in my not humble opinion, that B5 captured the feeling, and I watched season 1-4 straight through for the first time ever (I did not watch it during its run) on DVD a few months before the game was released. It captures it well. You just don't seem to like d20. GURPS is also a generic system and clunky like d20, maybe you issue lies in something else? Please, lie down on the couch and tell us.

A word of advice...

Being intentionally rude is the quickest way to get people to label your opinion as without merit.

Yeah, but the orginal post proved no merit before the snippy comment, but thanks for your support.

 

[MrFilthyIke]

It even took me a while to get used to Diaglo.

Get USED to diaglo? Man, he's one of the reasons I read here, it's like having Comedy Central at my fingers tips.

 

[arkham618]

He has about two more strikes before I do so. I have no problem with people holding different opinions than I do, but claiming that theirs is the one true way annoys me.

It even took me a while to get used to Diaglo.

The Auld Grump

I made no such claim. We are discussing standards, which are subjective, and mine are clearly more exacting than others. That's fine. I won't force my opinions onto anyone. I was brusque before because I was angry. I spent quite a bit of money discovering Mongoose's lax editorial standards and hackish writing -- that will teach me for buying product sight-unseen over the internet -- and wish to warn discerning consumers about what they can expect from that publisher. Because most of the posts to this thread read like paeans to Mongoose, I felt the need to balance them with sharp criticism.

 

[arkham618]

As someone else posted, you seem to have a problem with d20, why ARe you lurking here anyway? I though, in my not humble opinion, that B5 captured the feeling, and I watched season 1-4 straight through for the first time ever (I did not watch it during its run) on DVD a few months before the game was released. It captures it well. You just don't seem to like d20. GURPS is also a generic system and clunky like d20, maybe you issue lies in something else? Please, lie down on the couch and tell us.

I have no problem with d20. I have a problem with the derivative ruleset that Mongoose has built from it, and that it seems intent on applying -- with small adjustments here and there -- to most of its properties. I also seriously dislike the company's lackluster editing record.

Yeah, but the orginal post proved no merit before the snippy comment, but thanks for your support.

Ah. So dismissive, okay; "snippy", not okay. Gotcha.

 

[Jonny Nexus]

I made no such claim. We are discussing standards, which are subjective, and mine are clearly more exacting than others.

No, that's still an opinion, not a fact.

You disliking something that someone else liked does not prove that you have more exacting standards than them, merely that you're judging the standard of the product according to different criteria.

 

[Krieg]

The Conan line alone is worth more than basically all the other d20/OGL/D&D material of this generation combined, editing errors in the quickly corrected first printing and all. Unlike, say, GURPS Conan, Mongoose has drawn directly from Howard whenever possible, without the interpretation of later, lesser lights.

I'm glad somebody pointed this out. GURPS Conan was pastiche central to label it as a superior resource for an "exacting" Conan fan is absolutely ludicrous.

Yeah, but the orginal post proved no merit before the snippy comment, but thanks for your support.

I was trying to keep a civil tongue, which was quite a challenge.

I had to edit my post twice.

Nuff said.

I have no problem with d20. I have a problem with the derivative ruleset that Mongoose has built from it, and that it seems intent on applying -- with small adjustments here and there -- to most of its properties. I also seriously dislike the company's lackluster editing record.

Damn that derivative OGL!

Sorry but I cannot possibly take seriously someone who can look at the various rules in Conan, Babylon 5, Lone Wolf, Slaine & Judge Dredd and state that there are only "small adjustments here and there".

Even if that accusation is being made on the basis of the various OGL books or the direct D&D supplements (Quintessential X etc) while perhaps no longer baseless, then it is certainly misplaced as compatibility is the entire philosophy behind said products.

Feel free to throw one accusation of apologetics my way for good measure.

 

[arkham618]

People aren't always nice and pleasant, especially when they feel strongly about a particular topic (and losing good money on bad merchandise can generate strong feelings). If it's a problem for you, oh well. I never intended to ingratiate myself with the Mongoose apologists -- quite the opposite. The company has serious problems, and no amount of rhetorical sleight-of-hand will erase the verifiable and occasionally quite glaring editorial lapses they've had over the years. Anyway, I've said my piece here. People can make up their own minds.

 

[Crothian]

I made no such claim. We are discussing standards, which are subjective, and mine are clearly more exacting than others. That's fine. I won't force my opinions onto anyone. I was brusque before because I was angry. I spent quite a bit of money discovering Mongoose's lax editorial standards and hackish writing -- that will teach me for buying product sight-unseen over the internet -- and wish to warn discerning consumers about what they can expect from that publisher. Because most of the posts to this thread read like paeans to Mongoose, I felt the need to balance them with sharp criticism.

Your talking about the old Mongoose though. Believe it or not, after their Conan problem, they did get better. I have tons of old Mongoose stuff with the errors and wonky rules and mediocre art. I wouldn't say I got burned on any of it, it is all still very usible. But the few books I have picked up from Mongoose lately have been really solid pieces of works.