What's Up With The Monk?

[apsuman]

Ok, so do you think a 7th level monk could face a hill giant?

Being without books here, if you post the stats for the hill giant, I will try to answer that question.

Without that I would have to say "maybe".

g!

 

[Acmite]

I can't get the formatting to work properly (ug, sometimes the SRD makes me grumpy), so here's the link.

You'll have to scroll down to the Giant part.

SRD Hill Giant

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

With spring attack, boots of striding and springing, maxed out Tumble, and a wide open space?

You bet. It would just take him a long time.

Unless Hill Giants have some method of healing themsleves I can't remember.....

LOL.

First of all, the hill giant will know to ready an action once you pulled that trick on him once. Second of all, he stands a good chance of killing you with thrown rocks without even bothering to use tactics.

Your 7th level monk averages 43 HPs with a 14 Con. You will drop on the 3rd or 4th boulder. That can happen on round 2 if he rolls well. You are dead on the 3rd or 4th round if his luck is average.

 

[LokiDR]

With spring attack, boots of striding and springing, maxed out Tumble, and a wide open space?

You bet. It would just take him a long time.

Unless Hill Giants have some method of healing themsleves I can't remember.....

I would think the giant would crush the monk with thrown rocks, or charge attack.

 

[Acmite]

LOL.

First of all, the hill giant will know to ready an action once you pulled that trick on him once. Second of all, he stands a good chance of killing you with thrown rocks without even bothering to use tactics.

Your 7th level monk averages 43 HPs with a 14 Con. You will drop on the 3rd or 4th boulder. That can happen on round 2 if he rolls well. You are dead on the 3rd or 4th round if his luck is average.

The Giant can ready an action all he wants! The monk (of all the classes, IMO), can take advantage of uneven terrrain to make it more difficult for the giant to target and hit him. Plus, the monk can fight defensively and maybe "expertisely", which, while it will reduce his chances of hitting, will greatly reduce his chances of getting hit.

I think a smart player (or better yet, a smart character) can defeat this Hill Giant. It may not be easy, but I think he can do it.

Another option would be Shot on the Run and Zen Archery if required with a Longbow (if proficient).

In a 1-on-1 fight with a Giant, the monk's heightened mobility would be a huge asset. If there are wooded areas, the monk would be able to duck in and out of the brush to attack the giant from a place where he cannot launch boulders, etc.

 

[LokiDR]

The Giant can ready an action all he wants! The monk (of all the classes, IMO), can take advantage of uneven terrrain to make it more difficult for the giant to target and hit him. Plus, the monk can fight defensively and maybe "expertisely", which, while it will reduce his chances of hitting, will greatly reduce his chances of getting hit.

I think a smart player (or better yet, a smart character) can defeat this Hill Giant. It may not be easy, but I think he can do it.

Another option would be Shot on the Run and Zen Archery if required with a Longbow (if proficient).

In a 1-on-1 fight with a Giant, the monk's heightened mobility would be a huge asset. If there are wooded areas, the monk would be able to duck in and out of the brush to attack the giant from a place where he cannot launch boulders, etc.

Now I know you don't know what you are talking about. The giant has +16 to hit, at 2d6+10. The giant is going to hit you if you spring attack. The giant is goining to hurt you more than you hurt him. The giant has more hp than you, by over 100%. You are clearly out matched in melee.

In missle combat, the monk more than sucks. A bow would require a diffent class or elf. You sure aren't going to use shuriken If you fire a bow, the giant has rocks. He hits better, has more range, does more damage, and has more HP to soak your hits. The giant wins this as well.

(edit) There is no way for a straight monk to do Zen Archary, Shot on the Run, and have bow proficiency.

It doesn't look like the beating the giant with your monk would be hard, it looks impossible.

 

[Acmite]

Thank you for the offhand insult. It's nice to know how you respond to differing opinions. Which is what this is. A different opinion. Since I refernced the stat block, clearly I know what teh giant is capable of, so your ignorant comment about me "not knowing what I'm talking about" is clearly incorrect.

Anyway...

A Hill Giant has an Int of 6. An average monk will have a higher intelligence. Given the monk's high mobility, the ability to escape if necessary, the fact that a monk does NOT "suck" at ranged weapons, if required, and the higher intelligence, I think a smart character and/or player should be able to defeat a Hill Giant in single combat.

The Monk is not a fighter. Don't play him like one. Use the monk's strengths like mobility and stealth. Use terrrain to your advantage. Retreat, hide, and attack again. Play a war of attrition. Fight a guerrila battle.

If all your monks are dumbasses, then yeah, you have no chance. If you play a monk correctly, instead of a fighter who can punch, I still maintain you can beat a Hill Giant.

I welcome any intelligent, constructive comments.

 

[Forrester]

The Monk is not a fighter. Don't play him like one. Use the monk's strengths like mobility and stealth. Use terrrain to your advantage. Retreat, hide, and attack again. Play a war of attrition. Fight a guerrila battle.

If all your monks are dumbasses, then yeah, you have no chance. If you play a monk correctly, instead of a fighter who can punch, I still maintain you can beat a Hill Giant.

I welcome any intelligent, constructive comments.

Comment #1: Spring attack w/Boots of Cheat is about a lame as you can get. Again, a Barbarian with this combo could whup the Hill Giant in about half the time . . . or he could just walk up to him and beat the crap out of him.

Your monk is going to take *FOREVER* to kill this guy! Even when you hit, you're doing a lousy 12pts of damage, on average, and you're not hitting all the time. The Hill Giant is going to make mincemeat out of you with readied actions . . yes, I suppose you can cower and hide during that time.

How long do you want to take to kill this guy, anyway? Ten minutes? Twenty? An hour? That's not very realistic.

Comment #2: Most people don't want to play a monk because they'd like to play a guerilla warrior who prefers wussy tactics. Going by the rules, yes, a monk profits most when he uses such tactics, especially if he is wearing Boots of Cheat.

But I know when I say "Monk!" most people don't think of someone who runs up, hits someone, and then runs away.

Unfortunately, that's pretty much the only way a 3E monk can survive unless he's got a 40pt buy.

 

[apsuman]

Without weighing in on the who insulted whom and when part of this discussion.

I would say that the only way the monk could win was with spring attack.

The monk has some advantages here.

First, mobility.
Second, the Hill Giant has an Int of 6.


But the Hill giant's abilities are exactly counter to what the monk class does best. The size difference makes trip and grapple attacks worthless. The rocks ame deflect arrows useless.

I do not want these tests of monks to come down just to magic items, But with spring attack, a ring of invisibility would allow a monk to run in attack, and run out, reactivate the ring, rinse, repeat.

But sine that tactic strikes me (maybe not you) as against the sprit of the discussion I would have to say that the numbers just favor the hill giant too much.

g!

 

[Corinth]

If most players aren't willing to do what it takes to get the job done, then they deserve what they get for resorting to stupid tactics. A monk vs. a hill giant should open with shuriken coated with poison that drains a physical stat. A loss in any of those areas will improve the monk's odds considerably.