What's Wrong with Virtual Tabletop Play?

[DonTadow]

If I had to choose between "virtual D&D" and "no D&D" I would choose "no D&D." Particularly as DM. I wouldn't want to run such a game -- it just sounds like no fun at all. I don't think I'd want to be a player either. The pace, the interactions, the fluidity of communication all suffer online.

Sadly I think I have come to this conclusion. I still run my tabletop games. But a few months ago, my brother, an MMORPG addict, asked me to run a NWN2 game over the internet. As I started moving around and did some practice runs, it just wasn't the same. Even with voice chat it felt remote and restricting. I know nwn2 is a step above the play by mail or virtual table tops but it stil had that same distant feeling.

Even with all the top equipment or programs, there is still just the lack of interactivity. It worksif you can't get to a game, but it still is a poor replacement for face to face right now.

PS there are few people who can type anywhere near what they talk. If they could, they'd be GREAT secretaries.

 

[Trench]

I'll be the devil's advocate here, why not? I haven't been able to table top in a long time due to time restrictions.

I'll admit table topping is quicker, and you get a bit more chaotic, free-wheeling flashes of brilliance (and stupidity), but I've been doing a PbP game for about a year now and loving it. It also helps that many of the players are writers of one type or another, but I'm very satisfied with our game.

The disadvantages have been cited. But the advantages are:

1. It's much easier to stay in character, with one thread for OOC and one for IC.

2. It's also much easier to be sneaky. Instead of the DM rolling dice and handing a player a note if they make a knowledge or spot check, you have the DM send a PM to the player. This results in some very interesting dynamics...

Our DM Whizbang is currently editting and cut and pasting our PbP adventures in the Story Hour board... And I can't link for some dumb reason, so here's the link in text form.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=182480

 

[Crothian]

It's much easier to stay in character, with one thread for OOC and one for IC.

With a good group I find it is easier to stay in character with other people around you also in character. People play off the expressions and mannerisms of the other role players.

 

[kenobi65]

I'd call a bull**** on that - at least when it comes to typing quickly and accurately.

Absolutely agree. A *very good* typist can type at 70wpm or so; a *great* typist (e.g., someone who types for a living) may be over 100. Read, out loud, at a normal speed, boxed text out of a module; unless you absolutely stumble over the words, you're at far more than 100 words in 60 seconds.

I've been playing chat-based online games (RPGA games mostly) for 5 years. The upside is that it lets me play regularly with friends that are scattered all over the country, and, as some have said, it's better than not playing with them at all. The downsides are that it *is* slower (an RPGA module that'd take 3-4 hours F2F usually takes 6-7 hours online), and the overall experience just isn't quite as enjoyable as being together. Another thing that I notice is that most people tend to multi-task at their computer to fill in the slow times during the game; the problem frequently emerges that, when it's Player X's turn, Player X is busy doing an e-mail or paying bills, and it slows things down even more.

We're able to get together once or twice a year to play F2F, usually at GenCon or Origins, and those experiences are just more enjoyable (even after you take into account the fact that we're at a crowded, loud convention).

Yes, using voice-based programs would speed it up, but some of my friends are technologically challenged, playing on old machines, and / or still on dial-up. We may do that someday, but right now, it's not feasible.

In short: online play is better than not playing, but, for me, it's missing something.

 

[Renfield]

Hmmm, I see nothing wrong with it. Hell, why not do both. I've been gaming with my group for a few years, two members have been gaming with me since sophomore year in Highschool and one since 8th grade. Needless to say I sometimes like to game with different people. Considering my gaming timecard is limited and scheduling is a bitch I try virtual games and I've found them to be pretty nice. Yes they're missing the social element of me and my friends sitting around the table/living room and gaming while snacking and BSing but they do have their perks and flaws and when compared to tabletop gaming so does the latter. Here's my take:

Tabletop Gaming Perks and Flaws

* Focus: Getting sidetracked: Now I know this isn't something all groups have problems with, but mine has a big problem with it, we'll go off on tangents that are completely not game related.

* Schedule: This is definitely a perk and flaw, we can all get together on saturdays, but we go late into the mornings. Another group of mine fell apart because of schedule conflicts.

* Roleplaying: I have two people who are good enough actors for their roleplaying to be entertaining, two others put effort into it, while the last roles dice when necessary and does little else. It is my experience that the average gamer tends to be more descriptive writing, than acting.

* Pace/Flow: Same as focus, getting sidetracked and the like disrupts the flow of the game considerably. However when focus is strong the flow goes quite nicely.

* Social: the best aspect, hanging with friends on a Saturday night (granted there have been times I wanted to go to a club instead)

VTabletop/PbP

* Focus: Focus tends to be up because most people aren't BSing ooc, they're focused on the game and what's going on. If this does happen it's usually when the DM get's up and leaves for a time. Ultimately I find focus tends to be stronger.

* Schedule: In some way's good in some ways bad. Good in that there are numerous websites that will let you search for fellow players or games that are in your time slot. Bad in that if you get into a group you like you can experience the same flaws of tabletop games. In PbP games there is no real downside to scheduling, it's quite easy to slip in a Post-a-Day or every other day and the flow of the game continues normally.

* Roleplaying: as mentioned above I find some people are just better writers than they are 'actors' or verbal descriptors and so I find roleplaying to go up during VTabletop. I especially find it improved in Play by Post games where people have more time to think on their actions and words. You occasionally get's someone who sucks but I ask for a writing sample and I'm fine, I'm also not a grammar nazi so long as it can be understood.

* Pace/Flow: For a VTabletop game the pace or flow speeds up for me, without the distractions and the like things work out fine. Not so much with PbP where it takes forever to get anywhere. I've been running a Call of Cthulhu game and we're still on Day 1 despite gaming for a few months. Though in VTabletop things tend to run fine.

I'll have to dissagree with kenobi, with the chat based VTabletop games if a GM has his stuff together (I will say there's longer prep time) the game goes by much faster than a F2F game. Dice rolls are done and added electronically. I'm a fast typer which helps, not speedy gonzales but a little faster than normal. There's less BSing which drastically improves the game, that RPGA module you mention might take 3-4 hours according to the module or whatnot, but toss in beer and snacks and friends and it turns into a 5-7hour deal quite quickly. Whereas the 3-4 hour module on a VTabletop tends to take me... 3-4 hours, maybe five if the PC's are thorough.


* Social: Here's where VTabletop and PbP get's kicked in the nuts. You lack the social bond and cammaraderie that would exist in a live tabletop setting. Some people just don't care if they don't inform those faceless names on the computer screen that they can't game that weekend, or that they can't game at all. People tend to think certain niceties shouldn't be in effect if you can't see the people face to face. That and it lacks the fun of the tabletop experience of gaming with friends.

Though in counter, once I graduate and move I would love to get my original gaming group together to continue our adventures via VTabletop. Sure I could game with new people but there's nostalgia with my old group that is missed and it would be awesome to game with them even over OpenRPG or some other program, especially if we had some sort of voice chat program involved.

Either way I love gaming and have invested too much in it to toss my books out if VTabletop is my only option. I'm sorry but I do it because I love the game and the creativity of it. I see nothing wrong with VTabletop that one should take such a drastic action in fact I consider it almost if not equal to tabletop. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Dracorat]

There are some misconceptions here about the potential of online play.

In the game I run every other weekend, we get probably twice the amount of D&D done as we would at a table.

The communication factor is not an issue because we use Ventrillo to talk to each other. Using Maptool I can coordinate maps and battles easily and we make our rolls there.

Since I can spread out my materials on a desk with no fear of onlookers I dont run out of space for all my notes etc.

I'd say about the only part lacking is the ability to use body language while roleplaying, but at the same time, it is easier for people to get in to character because the only version of other players that they see are the tokens.

(Note, I am talking about a realtime game I run, not the pbp advertised in my sig.)

 

[Michael_R_Proteau]

1) for many people their work day consists of sitting at a computer, typing, reacting to people on line, e-mailing, etc. etc. When they finish work the last thing they want to do is do the same thing all night or on the weekend to have fun. The process is way too similar to work for them. Two of the players in my face to face group are of this mindset. Why play a game that requires all the drudgery that work does, games are supposed to be fun.

2) for many, gaming is as much about social interactions as it is about the actual play of the game, and for me, and many others, interactions on a computer will never replace actual human contact and interacting face to face. This may be a generational perspective though. The internet and all its wonders were something that entered my life after I had established my gaming habits and after I was imprinted with the face to face mode of human interaction, however the phone never equalled face to face conversations before the dawn of the net for me, and as convienent as chat/IM is, it still a distant second in my preferred ways of interacting and communicating with me.

3) some people consider typing work and speaking natural, it is not just about time/accuracy but preferred way of communicating-there is no tone or inflection in typing to add meaning to the words themselves, so for me printed text is inherently inferior to spoken word as a means of communications (and this comes form someone who makes part of my living as a feelance writer and a lecturer, so I get to see how people react to words in both situations).

4) Part of the charm for gaming for me is seeing the "300 pund fat guy" as you put it trying to play the hot elf chick. It's humorous and adds to the fun and enjoyment of the experience, as does seeing the players sweat when facing a tough challenge and the high five celebrations when they beat the BBEG, the light bulb moment when they realize what's going on, and seeing your friend snort coke through his nose at the double entendre one liner the bard just threw out there to insult the guard , etc. Cameras, microphones, virtual table top all fail to capture the immediacy of the face to face experience, the ups and downs and humaness of it. If I didn't want to interact with people, I wouldn't play a game based on interactions, I would read or play a video game in isolation.

I am not opposed to creating improved virtual tabletop programs for those who want them, I am just not one who does. For me, virtual carries with it the connotation of a pale shadow of the real thing used as a substitute when the real thing is unavailable, not as a first option to replace the real thing on a regular basis.

That's just my view, and others will see things differently.

-M

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I'll be the devil's advocate here, why not? I haven't been able to table top in a long time due to time restrictions.

I'll admit table topping is quicker, and you get a bit more chaotic, free-wheeling flashes of brilliance (and stupidity), but I've been doing a PbP game for about a year now and loving it. It also helps that many of the players are writers of one type or another, but I'm very satisfied with our game.

The disadvantages have been cited. But the advantages are:

1. It's much easier to stay in character, with one thread for OOC and one for IC.

2. It's also much easier to be sneaky. Instead of the DM rolling dice and handing a player a note if they make a knowledge or spot check, you have the DM send a PM to the player. This results in some very interesting dynamics...

Our DM Whizbang is currently editting and cut and pasting our PbP adventures in the Story Hour board... And I can't link for some dumb reason, so here's the link in text form.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=182480

Play by Post and playing OpenRPG are two vastly different things from what I can see. While I would, and have in the past, play a game via software like OpenRPG, I have no desire to play a game via post.

 

[Darkwolf445]

I like to sit in the same room with my buddies and game, drink a few beers, and have fun.

QFT
I spend enough time staring at the computer screen daily.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I like to sit in the same room with my buddies and game, drink a few beers, and have fun.

QFT
I spend enough time staring at the computer screen daily.

Another strong point. I look at a computer screen for at least 10 hours a day during the week, if I don't play WoW or something like that. Busting out the pens and paper is quite nice to change from that. That is a reason I don't really enjoy gaming with a laptop, or when people say how RPG's should turn into a hybrid MMO.