What's Your Favorite System for Star Wars

[Staffan]

Running the Age of Rebellion Beginner Game adventure and the web enhancement Operation Shadowpoint is the most fun I've had running a game ever. The FFG rules work great...

... until vehicles get involved. Then things get wonky, partially because all vehicles work on the same stat scale (from a speeder bike to the Death Star), which makes resolution within a relatively evenly matched band (e.g. two different starfighters) work poorly.

But I'd still take FFG over D6, and D6 over D20.

 

[Jacob Lewis]

@Staffan Yeah, I tend to gloss over any vehicle stuff during play unless we can create an exciting or dramatic scene. After a couple of piloting checks and shots fired, I'll wrap it up with something definitive or interesting. Combat is the same way. No need to draw things out if it starts getting repetitive.

 

[longisland]

You're limiting yourself by keeping the same expectations you have for all the other game systems that do exactly what you described: generate a singular outcome for a singular action. That is neither plot, nor narrative, nor story. It does not convey any greater sense of drama, suspense, action, or humor. It is simply a test of whether your character succeeds at the moment of decision or action based on your choices as a person playing a game.

In the game you describe, your character attempts to appease the Hutt after botching a job for him as a favor to your employer. You roll a Diplomacy check, add whatever modifiers are baked in to your character sheet or at the DM's discretion, and you either do or do not.

In my game, the entertainer offers to perform for the Hutt to celebrate his small victory and his return to status despite losing his new mining facility to a bunch of murder-droids. It is a hard sell, but the character is good at telling people what they want to hear. But Hutt's are notoriously fickle and hard to deceive or persuade, so the difficulty is upgraded. Also, he is not happy that the group did not achieve all of their objectives, so the attempt has setbacks. But the group did bring back the workers and the credits the Hutt asked for in the first place, so boosts are also appropriate. Understanding all that goes into this process is as much a part of the roleplaying as figuring the dice itself. Now here's the kicker:

The result generates not only a success, but a Triumph AND a Despair. We stopped to think about this for a moment, and then it quickly hits me. The Hutt is so taken with both the character's negotiation and offer to perform at the event, the Hutt forgives the group's failures but decides to make the zeltron his own personal entertainer! And that became a whole new session I had to improvise for the group to get their friend back.

If your system of choice works for you, that's great! Have fun with that. But don't assume that is the only way to play, or expect every system should give you the same kind of experience.

My limited understanding is that it is a game of having fun explaining a narrative around the dice results. Which is fun in part because the dice are unpredictable. The GM is not simply dictating the narrative based on the scenario they have, nor are the players simply deciding what to have their characters attempt to do. The narrative dice add a massive random element to narrative creation with both the players and GM getting to have fun creating narrative around what the dice say.

In the game discounting multiples of the same die result there is a base of what?
1 Success
2 Success-Triumph
3 Success-Despair
4 Success-Triumph-Despair
5 Success-Advantage
6 Success-Advantage-Triumph
7 Success-Advantage-Despair
8 Success-Advantage-Triumph-Despair
9 Success-Threat
10 Success-Threat-Triumph
11 Success-Threat-Despair
12 Success-Threat-Triumph-Despair
13 Failure
14 Failure-Triumph
15 Failure-Despair
16 Failure-Triumph-Despair
17 Failure-Advantage
18 Failure-Advantage-Triumph
19 Failure-Advantage-Despair
20 Failure-Advantage-Triumph-Despair
21 Failure-Threat
22 Failure-Threat-Triumph
23 Failure-Threat-Despair
24 Failure-Threat-Triumph-Despair

All those possibilities and then there are all the results with cumulative dice for example a roll can come up with multiple threat or advantage.

It is not like a old fashioned RPG. The players are not just roleplaying their characters, they do not just decide what their character's do from the perspective of their characters. Nor is the games master simply playing through a scenario reacting to what the player characters do and acting as rules arbiter. It is much more dynamic and unpredictable with everyone acting as story teller using a game system where that story is inherently more unpredictable than a old fashioned RPG.

Some will embrace it and have far more fun than in a old fashioned RPG. Others will not. It is a matter of preferred style of play.

 

[longisland]

A more valid criticism than the narrative dice style of play might be based on the question how easy is it be to play the 1977 Star Wars 1980 Empire Strikes Back and 1983 Return of the Jedi movie trilogy using FFG Star Wars RPG? It is after all a licenced RPG for roleplaying Star Wars.

This is not because I think the only thing to do is play the movie trilogy it is that the ability to emulate the movie trilogy well should be the starting point of the game's design. That people who buy Star Wars the RPG will probably want to play in the heroic style of the movies, with heroes and actions like those seen on screen. So that should be the minimum the game is capable of. From that starting capability the game then expands to the Star Wars Universe and its endless possibilities.

FFG Star Wars looks to me overly complex for the task. I am no fan of numerous careers and endless lists of talents and talent trees. Or needing to chose x talent to do things like get up as a type x action rather than a type y action. And the various rules from the effect of multiple successes to if equal to and less than or equal and more than is used are applied differently to different skills and actions which seems pointlessly complex and inconsistent.

To me it looks difficult to simply pick up and play the Star Wars movie trilogy as Luke, Leia, Han, Chewbacca, C3PO and R2D2. And characters do not look capable of being say Luke a boy farmer who saves the galaxy in the first movie and is a Jedi knight by the third film.

I am also unsure how heroic the characters are capable of being. Can starting characters achieve the heroic acts of daring do that the heroes of the movies do?

Then there are the woeful rules on space combat for a game based on movies where space dogfights are often part of the finale.

And the splitting of the game into so many books. To play the original movie trilogy you appear to need Edge of Empires for Han Solo and Chewbacca, Age of Rebellion for Leia and the Rebel Alliance vs Empire, and Force and Destiny for Luke, Obi-wan, Yoda, Darth Vader and the Emperor. And large sections are repeated in all three books as they are sold as stand alone games. Then there are all the splat books for the careers and the splitting up of details on alien species between the splat books.

Just buying the first core book Edge of Empires seems instead designed to play characters beginning on a career path of bounty hunter, smuggler, colonist, explorer, hired gun, technician. With the Star Wars Universe being a background detail. It seems more Firefly the RPG than Star Wars.

By contrast West End Games 1st Edition Star Wars RPG and Star Wars Sourcebook was clearly focused on emulating the style of the original movie trilogy, being all you needed to play, and having simple and easy rules. Although you did need the rules addendum quickly put out in the adventures to play it as the 1st edition rules on dodging were broken.

 

[Jacob Lewis]

@longisland Speaking as someone who regularly demos the game for strangers, teaches new people how to play, and runs games and campaigns, I can assure you that no one has ever come to me after with the same concerns as you. But just to put your mind at ease:

• The default timeline begins between the destruction of the first Death Star (episode IV) and the Battle of Hoth (episode V). Original trilogy.
• The core mechanic works the same way for almost everything in the game, every time, which makes it simple, intuitive, and easy to learn.
• You can absolutely play/emulate any character in films, books, games, etc. What makes you think you can't?
• You can absolutely go from farm boy to Jedi, or any other paths you and your GM decide. What makes you think you can't?
• "Narrative" means your results can be as heroic as you want to describe them to be.
• Space combat needs only to move the plot or story forward. Otherwise, it's a tactical game. This is not a tactical game.
• A lot of RPGs have lots of books. None (that I can think of) require you to buy all their books (or buy more than just the core one) to be able to play as intended.
• Firefly doesn't have droids, rodians, X-wrings, the Force, and a bunch of other stuff. Both are great settings, but I think everyone can agree they are mutually exclusive.
• I never had the opportunity to play WEG version, but I hear great things. Sorry to hear you needed an addendum to fix something that was "broken".

Incidentally, I hope to see people who are genuinely curious about the system when I demo the game at PAX South next month! You may not like it, but at least you can do more than just glance over it or read other people's comments to come up with your own opinions. Then again, no one has ever told me they didn't like it after playing, either.

 

[Zardnaar]

@longisland Speaking as someone who regularly demos the game for strangers, teaches new people how to play, and runs games and campaigns, I can assure you that no one has ever come to me after with the same concerns as you. But just to put your mind at ease:

• The default timeline begins between the destruction of the first Death Star (episode IV) and the Battle of Hoth (episode V). Original trilogy.
• The core mechanic works the same way for almost everything in the game, every time, which makes it simple, intuitive, and easy to learn.
• You can absolutely play/emulate any character in films, books, games, etc. What makes you think you can't?
• You can absolutely go from farm boy to Jedi, or any other paths you and your GM decide. What makes you think you can't?
• "Narrative" means your results can be as heroic as you want to describe them to be.
• Space combat needs only to move the plot or story forward. Otherwise, it's a tactical game. This is not a tactical game.
• A lot of RPGs have lots of books. None (that I can think of) require you to buy all their books (or buy more than just the core one) to be able to play as intended.
• Firefly doesn't have droids, rodians, X-wrings, the Force, and a bunch of other stuff. Both are great settings, but I think everyone can agree they are mutually exclusive.
• I never had the opportunity to play WEG version, but I hear great things. Sorry to hear you needed an addendum to fix something that was "broken".

Incidentally, I hope to see people who are genuinely curious about the system when I demo the game at PAX South next month! You may not like it, but at least you can do more than just glance over it or read other people's comments to come up with your own opinions. Then again, no one has ever told me they didn't like it after playing, either.

I would play the system, it just money, time and already have 2 other SW games.

 

[Crusadius]

I only have one "Star Wars" rpg at the moment - Scum and Villainy. So I guess that's my answer.

 

[Guest 6801328]

The one Francesco Nepitello hasn't designed (or maybe even thought about) yet.

 

[Crusadius]

The one Francesco Nepitello hasn't designed (or maybe even thought about) yet.

"The One Force"?

 

[longisland]

@longisland Speaking as someone who regularly demos the game for strangers, teaches new people how to play, and runs games and campaigns, I can assure you that no one has ever come to me after with the same concerns as you. But just to put your mind at ease:

• The default timeline begins between the destruction of the first Death Star (episode IV) and the Battle of Hoth (episode V). Original trilogy.
• The core mechanic works the same way for almost everything in the game, every time, which makes it simple, intuitive, and easy to learn.
• You can absolutely play/emulate any character in films, books, games, etc. What makes you think you can't?
• You can absolutely go from farm boy to Jedi, or any other paths you and your GM decide. What makes you think you can't?
• "Narrative" means your results can be as heroic as you want to describe them to be.
• Space combat needs only to move the plot or story forward. Otherwise, it's a tactical game. This is not a tactical game.
• A lot of RPGs have lots of books. None (that I can think of) require you to buy all their books (or buy more than just the core one) to be able to play as intended.
• Firefly doesn't have droids, rodians, X-wrings, the Force, and a bunch of other stuff. Both are great settings, but I think everyone can agree they are mutually exclusive.
• I never had the opportunity to play WEG version, but I hear great things. Sorry to hear you needed an addendum to fix something that was "broken".

Incidentally, I hope to see people who are genuinely curious about the system when I demo the game at PAX South next month! You may not like it, but at least you can do more than just glance over it or read other people's comments to come up with your own opinions. Then again, no one has ever told me they didn't like it after playing, either.

What makes me think it is overly complex? Reading the rules for the first three skills tells me the rules work differently for different skills. Hence the need for each of the 33 skills to have a half to a whole page of rules. And just reading the rules for the first three talents likewise tells me they create various modifiers in various different ways at various different times. Hence the need for each of the 150 talents to have as short blurb of rules. If a character sheet had to contain all the rules for the skills and talents the character had I think it would be a booklet.

What makes me think it does not look capable of making the cast of the original trilogy. Reading the character generation rules I can't see how to create Princes Lea or Luke Skywalker using Edge of the Empire.

What makes me think characters might not be capable of the daring do seen in the original movie trilogy. The rules. Looking at combat characters are limited in the number and types of actions they can perform, and need various talents to do stuff, and there is a critical hit table. Its not written as free flowing do or try to do whatever you like. Nor do the rules look capable of handling starfighter dogfights or speeder bike chases which are iconic to the movies. I do not fancy starting player character chances eve against say half a dozen or so storm troopers despite in the movies the heroes repeatedly dodging blaster fire with seeming ease. Let alone Ewoks taking down AT-ST walkers or a farm boy in a lone starfighter destroying the Death Star by trusting the force.

Maybe you can educate me as to how to make Leia and Luke? Maybe you can explain how the system emulates various iconic action scenes of daring do in the movie trilogy? Because to me it does not look designed to do any of that. Edge of Empire looks to me designed to make characters starting a career path as bounty hunter, smuggler, colonist, explorer, hired gun or technician with the Star Wars Universe being a background detail. Not designed to create the stuff of legends in a science fiction fantasy of heroes triumphing against insurmountable odds against an evil Empire. A tale of princesses, magic and monsters as much if not more than spaceships, blasters and droids.