When a man plays a woman

[Roseweave]

I think 3) isn't mostly all that bad though, since there's no one way to be "female". But there is definitely a better way to write/play female characters.

 

[fuindordm]

At the end of the day, the difference between appropriation and exchange, as with the subject of "A man plays a woman" is respect.

Thanks for the thoughtful, interesting, and well-written post.

Any creative work is a melting pot, but respect shows itself if you try to create something of value to a wide audience. That means you're not just playing to your own cultural group and its stereotypes, you're trying to make something that people from the cultures who inspired your work would also enjoy.

So if you're a man who wants to play a woman, you should first and foremost try to create a PC with personality, motivations, and quirks that are interesting in their own right, and that male and female players at the table can enjoy along with you.

Ben

 

[innerdude]

These things aren't just "theories" and there's certainly a lot more written for the idea of Cultural Appropriation than against. You can talk to the lived experiences of groups heavily affected by appropriation - particularly Native Americans, Romani people. It hurts people - and I don't think that people not from those groups have a right to tell them that what they see and experience or feel somehow isn't real.

My disagreement with the concept of "cultural appropriation" isn't about denying that injustices have occurred through cultural and racial interactions throughout history. This is fact; I completely accept that.

What I completely disagree with is that someone being emotionally hurt by a representation of their culture is a valid, legally necessary reason to censor that speech.

There's a parallel here between this idea and the playing of opposite genders in an RPG. There are some in our hobby who would advocate that men shouldn't play women PCs (or vice-versa) because there's a potential to offend someone of the opposite gender. And in my mind, the risk of offending someone isn't generally a valid rationale for censorship, at least as it applies in public discourse.

RPG groups, on the other hand, are generally private exercises (unless the game is being played in a public space). It's entirely up to the group to set standards for the content they want in their game. If a group's okay with a "bro" playing a lesbian ninja stripper, that's their prerogative.

Would I greatly wish for people to approach cultural/gender representations with care, respect, and an eye to positive engagement and enlightenment? Absolutely. Just because I support someone's right to say or artistically represent something abhorrent on a cultural topic doesn't mean I particularly respect or want to spend time with people who participate in those kinds of speech.

 

[Mallus]

People who say cultural appropriation doesn't exist honestly just don't care about things like this, or haven't spent enough time at intersections to see it.

You should really avoid sweeping generalizations like this. I'm a multiracial American who presents as Asian. Show a little respect, eh? I've lived my life and reflected on it and I don't appreciate someone telling me what I do or don't care about (even if they mean well, which for now I'll assume you do).

I think cultural appropriation is... largely unhelpful as a critical framework, and most online arguments (ie, non-academic) made in favor that I've encumbered are, well, dumb. Like the poster who cited Oriental Adventures as an example of D&D's cultural appropriation. That's idiotic (the idea, not the poster). For a host of reasons, not the least of which is Asian-Americans aren't a subaltern group in the United States. And it's not like a lot of us practice ninjitsu or follow Bushidō in our everyday lives, or any of the other stuff covered in OA, ie what's actually being appropriated, kemosabe?.

edit: drat, distracted by cultural appropriate tangent - next post will be about playing adventuresses as a guy.

 

[Roseweave]

My disagreement with the concept of "cultural appropriation" isn't about denying that injustices have occurred through cultural and racial interactions throughout history. This is fact; I completely accept that.

What I completely disagree with is that someone being emotionally hurt by a representation of their culture is a valid, legally necessary reason to censor that speech.

There's a parallel here between this idea and the playing of opposite genders in an RPG. There are some in our hobby who would advocate that men shouldn't play women PCs (or vice-versa) because there's a potential to offend someone of the opposite gender. And in my mind, the risk of offending someone isn't generally a valid rationale for censorship.

Would I greatly wish for people to approach cultural representations (or with this thread in mind, gender representations) with care, respect, and an eye to positive engagement and enlightenment? Absolutely. Just because I support someone's right to say something abhorrent on a cultural topic doesn't mean I particularly respect or want to spend time with people who participate in those kinds of speech.

I don't see anyone calling for censorship here. This always comes up with anti-social justice arguments. Cultural practices can be outlawed or made "undesirable" by way of employment discrimination etc., Muslim women can be afraid to wear Abayas & Hijab, trans people can be afraid to walk down the street without being arrested for intent to prostitute, but yet people who claim to care about censorship and freedom of expression (or see how appropriation ties into these issues) never really comments on these. Of course they'll get offended at that notion saying "Of course I care about them!" but the fact is I see 100x amount the focus from self described Free Speech advocates focusing on the right to be hateful/insensitive. And ironically, it's sort of taboo to criticise this attitude because "Free Speech". (In SJ circles we often refer to it as "Freeze Speech" to distinct it from actual freedom of expression, or legal Freedom of Speech).

When people criticise a piece of media or being insensitive or hurtful and it gets changed, the gamergate sorts of the world are very quickly to scream censorship. What this is saying is that - while these people claim not to hate minorities, women, trans people etc.(and may even be from those groups), they don't actually want bigoted or insensitive attitudes to be challenged, or for things to get measurably better in terms of representation of other peoples and cultures. It's an aggressive defence of status quo(though particularly the status quo of the 80s or so). In this thread one person has outright said cultural appropriation does not exist and does not open themselves to be challenged on it, and this is creating a problem.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Thanks for the thoughtful, interesting, and well-written post.

Any creative work is a melting pot, but respect shows itself if you try to create something of value to a wide audience. That means you're not just playing to your own cultural group and its stereotypes, you're trying to make something that people from the cultures who inspired your work would also enjoy.

So if you're a man who wants to play a woman, you should first and foremost try to create a PC with personality, motivations, and quirks that are interesting in their own right, and that male and female players at the table can enjoy along with you.

Ben

Or you can just put F in the sex field on the sheet and play the PC like the rest of your dungeon bashing characters.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Oh nevermind. Where is the delete post option?

 

[Roseweave]

Or you can just put F in the sex field on the sheet and play the PC like the rest of your dungeon bashing characters.

Well, yeah, a bit like how you can put "Half-Elf" in the race field but play it like a Human or Elf aside from minor mechanical differences.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Well, yeah, a bit like how you can put "Half-Elf" in the race field but play it like a Human or Elf aside from minor mechanical differences.

Sure. The people I've always played with took a different race for the mechanical differences and how they impact gameplay instead of playing a half elf because they have a story that can only be told with a half elf.

 

[Roseweave]

I prefer to do stuff with stuff I guess. Though I do worry as many in the thread as to what stuff some people consider.