When a PC offends a paladin's CoC

[Quasqueton]

Say your party has a paladin and a non-LG character in it. The non-LG character continually does things to abuse or offend or bend or break the paladin’s code. (I’m trying to be as vague as possible so we don’t get into a discussion/argument over what specific actions offend the code.) Say the paladin confronts the other character, and it comes down to “he leaves the group or I leave the group”. Assume that both characters are on good terms with the rest of the party, and there are no other conflicts. (This is strictly and in-character confrontation – not a Player personality problem.)

Who would you vote to keep (or would it be a “toss up”)?

Paladin vs. Cleric

Paladin vs. Druid

Paladin vs. Wizard

Paladin vs. Sorcerer

Paladin vs. Fighter

Paladin vs. Barbarian

Paladin vs. Bard

Paladin vs. Ranger

Paladin vs. Rogue

Paladin vs. Monk


Quasqueton

 

[JoeGKushner]

To me, as a GM and player, the first thing I do is nip the behvariour in the bud.

"Frank, you know that we agreed that this was a heroic campaign. Noodles the half-orc slayer of children must be retired."

"John, you know that we agreed to a grim and gritty game. Sir Anhur of Arkus is not appropriate for this type of campaign."

Otherwise it boils down to, "Quit being a jerk." To whoever is ruining the game.

But that's not really what your asking about. You're asking about party composition for 'min-maxing' purposes.

Paladin vs. Cleric: Cleric

Paladin vs. Druid: Druid

Paladin vs. Wizard: Wizard

Paladin vs. Sorcerer: Sorcerer

Paladin vs. Fighter: Fighter

Paladin vs. Barbarian: Barbarian

Paladin vs. Bard: Paladin

Paladin vs. Ranger: Ranger

Paladin vs. Rogue: Rogue

Paladin vs. Monk: Monk

 

[green slime]

Say your party has a paladin and a non-LG character in it. The non-LG character continually does things to abuse or offend or bend or break the paladin’s code. (I’m trying to be as vague as possible so we don’t get into a discussion/argument over what specific actions offend the code.) Say the paladin confronts the other character, and it comes down to “he leaves the group or I leave the group”. Assume that both characters are on good terms with the rest of the party, and there are no other conflicts. (This is strictly and in-character confrontation – not a Player personality problem.)

Who would you vote to keep (or would it be a “toss up”)?

Paladin vs. Cleric

Paladin vs. Druid

Paladin vs. Wizard

Paladin vs. Sorcerer

Paladin vs. Fighter

Paladin vs. Barbarian

Paladin vs. Bard

Paladin vs. Ranger

Paladin vs. Rogue

Paladin vs. Monk


Quasqueton

Why?

Why would it go so far, as him or me? Short of the other character being evil?

This makes no sense, as it is out of context. There is no reference to any other characters, other than everyone else get along. So assuming that all the character's are non-Evil (they all get along with the Paladin), and non-Chaotic (they all get along with the Paladin), why then is Player X playing this non-LG character as such a pain in the neck? Is everyone at the table enjoying the in-game conflict, or not? If not, then I'd suggest that some moderation be applied. If it is, then why is the conflict being blown out of proportion?

Therefore this "vote" as listed is pointless, because

1) It shouldn't really be happening, it is a contrived event.
2) If it is happening, then people aren't enjoying the conflict.
3) This implies behaviourial problems that won't be solved by removing a character from the game.

 

[Endur]

It has nothing to do with character classes.

It has everything to do with relationships with the character (and the player behind the character). Whoever has the stronger relationship with the party stays, and whoever has the weaker relationship leaves.

 

[Quasqueton]

How about if I rephrased the scenario: Which would you rather have in the party? A paladin or X?

My thinking on this was revolving around the paladin's code of conduct, and how willing others are to live within in it to have/keep a paladin in the party. Is a paladin worth the alignment and code of conduct restrictions for a party?

Quasqueton

 

[el-remmen]

Is a paladin worth the alignment and code of conduct restrictions for a party?

Quasqueton

Depends.

 

[green slime]

How about if I rephrased the scenario: Which would you rather have in the party? A paladin or X?

My thinking on this was revolving around the paladin's code of conduct, and how willing others are to live within in it to have/keep a paladin in the party. Is a paladin worth the alignment and code of conduct restrictions for a party?

Quasqueton

Your question is still far too generic.

What is the rest of the party composition (class, aligment)? What are the attitudes of the other players towards paladins (which is far more of a hindrance, than any IC considerations, IMX)? What RP restrictions has the DM placed on the paladin's CoC? How liberally does DM interpret alignment and the CoC? What does the player wish to achieve? How well do the players know each other? What is the goal and flavour of the campaign?

Is the price of air travel between Cairo and Athens worthwhile? As I have no intention of travelling between these two points on the globe, I'd say no. Does that mean that air travel between those two points should be cheaper?

 

[cmanos]

How about if I rephrased the scenario: Which would you rather have in the party? A paladin or X?

My thinking on this was revolving around the paladin's code of conduct, and how willing others are to live within in it to have/keep a paladin in the party. Is a paladin worth the alignment and code of conduct restrictions for a party?

Quasqueton

As has been said before...it depends. Ultimately, I don't like ultimatums, so if I was in a group with a paladin who said, "Him or me." the paladin would be mounting up on his high horse and riding out of town. Granted if the offendor is killing innocents or acting in a completely evil manner, and the rest of the party is also offended by his actions, the offendor may very well end up in anoose.

So Like I said....it depends.

 

[mmu1]

How about if I rephrased the scenario: Which would you rather have in the party? A paladin or X?

My thinking on this was revolving around the paladin's code of conduct, and how willing others are to live within in it to have/keep a paladin in the party. Is a paladin worth the alignment and code of conduct restrictions for a party?

Quasqueton

Mechanically speaking? No. A Paladin isn't "worth it" even without the code of conduct restrictions - except in very unusual circumstances, like playing a whole campaign knee-deep in fear and disease causing enemies.

I also have no use for them based on personal preference - while having PCs with different goals and agendas can make for fun RP, having one PC with an almost completely inflexible worldview can get old really soon, unless, of course, everyone is fine with playing characters close to the LG standard of behavior. It's not nearly as bad as playing with someone who always has his character act like a complete a-hole, but it's not different, fundamentally.

Although in a real-life situation, my reaction would probably depend entirely on how both my PC in that campaign got along with the two PCs in question, and how I got along with both players.

 

[sckeener]

For me the Paladin loses every time.