When a person provides cover for ranged attacks

[Shallown]

Okay so a crossbow is being fired into a melee through squares occupied by party members.

you take a -4 for shooting into melee and a -4 for cover from the party members.

the target has a 26 AC. So his AC is (effectively) 34. I have always said the last 4 points of AC 31-34 are the "cover" points.

The crossbow is fired and gets a 33. So it hits cover.

Do you compare that roll (of 33) to the Covers AC or roll a new Attack against the cover or do they automatically hit since the roll says you hit cover?

Couldn't find the answer in the rules.

later thanks

 

[the Jester]

Compare it against the cover's AC. Use the same roll. So if your cover has a better AC than the target, you're in pretty good shape.

 

[Vinyafod]

I can't find the rule in the 3.5 PHB at the moment but in 3.0 the 33 would have been compared to the cover's AC doing damage.
If the 33 would not be enough to hit only because the coverring persons DEX-mod, the covering person could choose to "evade" the shot and the original target would have been hit after all.
So someone with 34 AC (with lets say 4 points of that being his dex-mod) would not have been hurt by the shot but could even chose to "evade" it and thus let it pass through to the intended target.

As stated, that was 3.0, seems it was left out of 3.5.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I like vinyafod's answer, but have trouble with where the AC breakdown is. Is there a rule for which ranges armor, dex, deflection, dodge, etc falls in a character's AC?

Example: Kantamar, an pansy dancing elf has a combat AC of 26. 6 points comes from a chain shirt +2 (armor), 2 points comes from a ring (deflection), 6 points come from dex (dodge/dex), and 2 points come from a class ability (dodge). Which bonus is in what range. Is it armor then deflection then dex/dodge? What about insight or other bonuses?

 

[MichaelH]

Okay so a crossbow is being fired into a melee through squares occupied by party members.

you take a -4 for shooting into melee and a -4 for cover from the party members.

the target has a 26 AC. So his AC is (effectively) 34. I have always said the last 4 points of AC 31-34 are the "cover" points.

The crossbow is fired and gets a 33. So it hits cover.

Do you compare that roll (of 33) to the Covers AC or roll a new Attack against the cover or do they automatically hit since the roll says you hit cover?

Couldn't find the answer in the rules.

later thanks

There are no rules in 3.5 for hitting the cover in this situation. The target simply is harder to hit because of the cover. If your attack roll is 1 to 4 points less than your target's AC, you miss. It is not assumed that you hit the cover in this case.

 

[Hypersmurf]

There are no rules in 3.5 for hitting the cover in this situation.

It exists, but only in the DMG as a variant rule. What you described is the default situation, but if a DM chooses, he can reinstate the 3E rule by applying the DMG variant.

Example: Kantamar, an pansy dancing elf has a combat AC of 26. 6 points comes from a chain shirt +2 (armor), 2 points comes from a ring (deflection), 6 points come from dex (dodge/dex), and 2 points come from a class ability (dodge). Which bonus is in what range. Is it armor then deflection then dex/dodge? What about insight or other bonuses?

The way it worked in 3E:

If the attack would have hit the target if it weren't for the Cover bonus, there's a chance it hits the cover.

If the roll would miss the Flat-Footed AC of the cover, the attack fails.
If the roll would hit the Normal AC of the cover, the cover takes damage.

If the roll would miss the Normal AC, but would hit the Flat-Footed AC, then the attack only misses the cover because the cover gets out of the way. In this case, he ends up not actually providing cover, and the original target is hit after all. The cover can elect to forgo his Dex and Dodge bonuses and take the hit if he wishes to protect the target.

(Note - where I've said Flat-Footed AC, it's strictly "AC excluding Dex or Dodge bonuses". I was just using a shorthand term that might not, under certain circumstances like Uncanny Dodge, be accurate.)

-Hyp.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

you take a -4 for shooting into melee and a -4 for cover from the party members.

I thought the -4 from firing into combat came from the cover provided by intervening characters, not that it stacked. In this situation should it be -4 to hit or -8? I had always thought -4. Sadly I don't have my books handy to double-check right now.

 

[DarkMaster]

Okay so a crossbow is being fired into a melee through squares occupied by party members.

you take a -4 for shooting into melee and a -4 for cover from the party members.

the target has a 26 AC. So his AC is (effectively) 34. I have always said the last 4 points of AC 31-34 are the "cover" points.

The crossbow is fired and gets a 33. So it hits cover.

Do you compare that roll (of 33) to the Covers AC or roll a new Attack against the cover or do they automatically hit since the roll says you hit cover?

Couldn't find the answer in the rules.

later thanks

If the player would have rolled 27-30 then I house rule that someone engaged in melee with the target his hit. This ruling improves precise shot and makes you think before shooting at an oponent already fighting with your buddy.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I thought the -4 from firing into combat came from the cover provided by intervening characters, not that it stacked. In this situation should it be -4 to hit or -8? I had always thought -4. Sadly I don't have my books handy to double-check right now.

It's a -4 penalty, and a +4 AC bonus, so they effectively stack.

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Situation 1: Shooting at the goblin in melee with the dwarf.

-4 penalty for shooting at an opponent engaged in melee.
Negated by Precise Shot.

Situation 2: Shooting at the goblin in melee with the dwarf who is providing cover.

-4 penalty for shooting at an opponent engaged in melee.
Negated by Precise Shot.
+4 Cover bonus to goblin's AC.
Negated by Improved Precise Shot.

So with no feats, in Situation 2, you're at an 'effective' -8 penalty, rather than -4.

-Hyp.

 

[DarkMaster]

Okay so a crossbow is being fired into a melee through squares occupied by party members.

you take a -4 for shooting into melee and a -4 for cover from the party members.

the target has a 26 AC. So his AC is (effectively) 34. I have always said the last 4 points of AC 31-34 are the "cover" points.

The crossbow is fired and gets a 33. So it hits cover.

Do you compare that roll (of 33) to the Covers AC or roll a new Attack against the cover or do they automatically hit since the roll says you hit cover?

Couldn't find the answer in the rules.

later thanks

I just reread your post wouldn't the -4 for being in melee comes from the fact that the target opponent is providing cover?
Basically you should only get -4 for being in melee and 33 would hit your elf.