When did I stop being WotC's target audience?

[Jeff Wilder]

The reasons each of us enjoy D&D are many and complex. The "target customer" isn't a discreet profile; rather, its a spectrum with very fuzzy edges. As WotC makes adjustments to D&D--and hence, to what makes D&D appealing--it's inevitable that that fuzzy zone wiggles one way or the other. Before, you were within that zone; now you seem to have fallen out of it. That's disappointing to you, and, I'm sure, to WotC, but it's inevitable that it will happen as the game evolves.

This is getting to the heart of what I'm trying to figure out. I understand what you're saying, and I'm not exactly disputing it. But if the edges are "fuzzy," then how did I go from "completist" to "nearly nothing"?

Since I'm not an all-or-nothing gamer, generally speaking (there are many games for which I only have a modest selection of books), doesn't the fact that the demarcation is so extreme kinda call into question the "fuzzy edges" idea?

 

[Dragonhelm]

Maybe it was when you no longer needed WotC. You've collected an entire edition's worth of material (a hefty feat, to be sure!).

WotC reached a point to where they put out just about everything they could for 3.5. It reminded me of the end of 2nd edition. So when the ideas run out and profits sink, it's time to put out a new edition and get the higher dollar amounts one gets with core books. Enter 4th edition.

So here you are with everything from 3rd edition and the idea of collecting everything...again...is there in your thoughts. You may feel like you've been there and done that. You're not the target audience because you have it already; the target being those who don't.

I know that I feel that way at times. I had a pretty hefty 1e/2e collection, and I collected many of the same books in 3e as well (some better, some worse). Now here's 4e. I've already got two editions of Draconomicons and class/race sourcebooks. Now they're doing it again. It gets worse because of the ever-expanding core. So now this edition will have more than one Draconomicon, for example.

At some point, you have to ask why you need all this info again. The answer is that you don't. Of course, you don't need anything beyond the core three books. You don't need WotC to give you all the good dragon info (example) because you already have the Draconomicon from 3e. You don't need WotC to give you all the class options, because you have them already. And so on and so forth.

I could be off and this is just a guess. But it's a theory at least. My advice is to stick with 3e, if that's the game you like to play. You have plentiful resources which can provide years of fun to come. Maybe you're no longer WotC's target audience, but you may be the target audience for other companies. Take a look at what Paizo is doing.

Don't worry about being a target audience and buying things because it is WotC. Perhaps now is the time to focus on the fun you're going to have with all those 3.5 books.

 

[avin]

Why, and when, did WotC decide I wasn't their target audience?

I remember when 3x came out the people playing before (long time veterans) felt they were ignored as a "new" audience was targeted.

That's it. There was AD&D fans thinking Wotc ignored them, now you are thinking you're not their target audience.

Reason is: they need to sell and editions need to be different to sell well.

So far I'm fine, playing 3.5 and 4.0. I hated AD&D silly rules, maybe I'll find 5e a crap too

Keep playing 3.5, it's a solid and nice edition

 

[Nebulous]

Hmm...i'm 36 and not liking a lot of changes 4e is making, although i'm playing the game and enjoying it (and still buying the hell out of minis). I wonder when someone officially becomes a "grognard"?

 

[ExploderWizard]

As much as we like to think that its just Hasbro enjoying being evil and stomping on us we can't ignore some basic truths.

1) Hasbro is not out to "get" anyone.

2) Hasbro is a large company with shareholders. Shareholders want profit. Competitive games, especially collectible ones, make more money than roleplaying games.

3) The D&D IP is a source of revenue. Hasbro will want to generate as much revenue from it as they possibly can in the best interest of thier shareholders.

4) The D&D IP has value, and roleplaying games have a much lesser value (in $$). The splitting of the two was inevitable from the moment Hasbro acquired the rights. Some far seeing individuals saw this coming and created the OGL.

5) Roleplaying games and profit-first motives do not mix. A company can make money producing roleplaying games just not the kind of money that attracts shareholders.

The whole process is a result of Hasbro having the best of intentions for thier shareholders rather than the worst for roleplayers. We are of course, left hanging by this process but the OGL still exists and small private companies that care about the hobby are still around.

As a disclaimer I am in no way saying that 4E in its current form is not a roleplaying game. If future editions are purely collectible card and mini based then I will go so far as to say that, even if it says D&D on the package.

 

[Maggan]

but hundreds of games have died and left behind fans bewildered by the fact that their loyalty wasn't enough to keep the game going.]

Ouch, I read "game" as "gamers" and thought "harsh world!".

/M

 

[Jeff Wilder]

[Many good points.]

You're not the target audience because you have it already; the target being those who don't.

But that hasn't really turned out to be the case, has it? 4E fractured D&D fandom, sure, but many people who bought many 3E books have started in again with 4E books. Right? Also, I'm relatively certain that if 4E had been an evolution of 3E -- fixing its problems, introducing some new systems -- I'd still be buying.

I recognize that it's very subjective, but I honestly feel that it's not that I decided to stop buying WotC products, but rather that WotC decided to stop making products that I want to buy.

(I want to be very clear that this is not some backdoor into an edition war. If nobody, including me, ever mentions editions, that's fine with me. I'm just trying to figure out how I went from buying everything to buying almost nothing, and then being told that my opinions about things don't matter because I'm now buying almost nothing.)

 

[Crothian]

Why, and when, did WotC decide I wasn't their target audience?

They can't listen to everyone. They have to choose a way for their game to go and that was going to leave some people out of the game. They didn't decide you weren't their target audience, you did.

 

[scruffygrognard]

Since the release of 4E, and most recently in some threads about the upcoming change in the D&D miniatures lines, I've read many times (not always in direct response to me) that "you aren't WotC's target audience, so they don't really care what you think."

I bought every 3.5 book WotC ever released. I bought multiple cases of most of the miniatures sets. I bought the dungeon tiles.

Now I buy almost nothing from WotC. I'm not interested in 4E. The 4E cross-pollination with DDM means I dropped the skirmish game and cut way, way back on buying the minis. (I am still buying the dungeon tiles.)

When did I stop being WotC's target audience? And why? Why did WotC decide to forego the money I was giving them? Are people like me so rare that WotC actually can't make a profit from us? Considering how much I spent on a monthly basis, I find that difficult to believe, but I guess maybe ...

It seems very, very, very (yes, three verys) odd to me that I was a WotC completist for eight years, and then -- bam! -- I'm no longer their target audience. How can it be that the division between "consumer" and "irrelevant" is so sharp? Is it because I turned 40 in May?

It really seems to me that "you aren't WotC's target audience, so they don't care what you think" has the cause and effect backward. I stopped buying WotC's stuff because it became clear that they didn't care what I think. So why and when did they stop caring?

Ditto for me. The BIG plus-side to this is that I'm saving a lot of $$$$ that I used to dump into gaming stuff. I'm guessing that WotC wanted to crush the OGL (as much as it possibly could) and restrict its IP a lot more when it designed 4th edition. I also think that they aimed at producing more modular books, so that 4th edition customers would have to invest more $$$$ in order to have the same number of options that they had in the core books for 3.X. The PHB (in my opinion) was deliberately scaled back so that customers who wanted the "core options" they had in the past now needed to buy additional installments of the PHB. They have also pushed Dragon magazine buy having this e-zine offer previews of these "missing" options. To me it seems like 4th edition offers less bang for the buck by design.

 

[CharlesRyan]

This is getting to the heart of what I'm trying to figure out. I understand what you're saying, and I'm not exactly disputing it. But if the edges are "fuzzy," then how did I go from "completist" to "nearly nothing"?

Sorry, what I meant by "fuzzy" wasn't that the slope away from hardcore to nothing was necessarily gradual, but that the factors of appeal are very complex, making the edges of the target customer profile hard to pin down.

Let's take a hypothetical 2E player (since we're all quite old enough to remember them!). There are a million reasons he might like D&D, some of which even he probably isn't fully aware of. Along comes 3E, and he finds he just isn't into D&D as much. He likes the rules OK, and isn't put off by buying new books. So why? Perhaps part of appeal was the imagery--the Elmore/Parkinson/Caldwell look. The look changed, the game just didn't fire his imagination, and his interest fell away. Being a hardcore fan takes some energy, and when the payoff wasn't there, even in subtle ways, he was no longer motivated to put in that energy. (Or dollars.)

By changing the look of D&D, the publisher didn't intentionally refocus on a different target audience. But any pronounced shift in the game's appeal will be enough, I think, to undermine some of fans' enthusiasm--enough for them to drop out completely, even if they were really into it before.

Sad for you, sad for WotC (I'm sure they'd love to keep every hardcore, purchasing fan!), but hopefully offset by even more new fans. . . .