When did WotC D&D "Jump the Shark"?

[Derulbaskul]

(snip)DDi is better than it's ever been, (snip)

I'm sorry, I can accept the other arguments you make but this is simply wrong.

DDi sucks.

Sorry to put it so bluntly. I mean, look at this month. We're halfway through the month and we have one two- or three-page article (Eye on the Realms, so not exactly what the non-FR fans are looking for). By the end of the month we'll have, what?, nearly a whole adventure in Dungeon?

DDi is better if you go back in time to when there was a functioning Monster Builder etc... and Dungeon and Dragon both had content.

@OP: While I agree with some of your comments in your original post, I don't think jumping the shark was the right phrase/meme to use.

Apropos of nothing, I just want the Monster Builder to work, the Compendium to be updated and I will forget everything else. One of the things I have learnt from 12 years in Singapore is how to lower my expectations so as to avoid disappointment.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

But the free content we get is getting better and better...

 

[Goonalan]

I DM three campaigns at the moment, PC Levels 14, 8 and 5- I have enough stuff (adventures & crunch) as it stands to play all three through to 30th Level, and all three groups are having masses of fun- D&D (IMHO) has never been better, it's like a second childhood for me- loads of players, easy to teach to others, and... I'd better stop now in case I jinx it.

Jump the shark- I'd never heard the expression before today.

WOTC are just plain crazy, although that's an outsiders POV of course- I just can't get my head around some of the things they are doing. I bought 4e on the back of the VTT and various DDi stuff- none of this has come to pass for me- I have every printed issue of Dungeon and approx. 75% of Dragon- I've not read either of the electronic versions for a year. The CB seems okay at the moment- the MB is just incredily frustrating.

WOTC seem to start doing something, second guess themselves and wander off in a different direction and try something else- leaving islands of ideas that are not quite finished yet. It's all playable but it seems to be directionless at times, Like they don't know what's going to work anymore- or else someone up high is telling them if this doesn't sell then... it's like someone in Hasbro has suddenly turned a light on an discovered an office full of guys goofing off and having fun with odd-shaped dice. Don't get me wrong they work hard but it's like they've been left to their own devices up until now- or at least I hope its this.

The alternative is they really don't know which direction they are heading with 4e, what will work, what will fail- or even have any new ideas (and people to produce things- like DDi content, like a CB that does..., like a MB that works, like a VTT that does what they said- and connects to the other stuff). Three years (nearly in) and the transition to an electronic game (that is mostly what they are doing right?) is still mostly a great idea.

No sharks were jumped.

It's still a great game, I just wish the stuff they produced (DDi) just did what I want it to do- and seemingly what they want/said it would do.

 

[Mirtek]

DDi is better than it's ever been,

You mean beside the CB being a joke and the mags being reduced to mere leaflets? Well, that still leaves DDI with, ehm, ....

The new Builder is generally fine for my purposes, but I'm sad to realize how much worse it still is than the old Builder (except that it has updated material).

Which is only one goole search away for the old bulider

 

[Mercurius]

I'm going to write a general response as there are just too many specific points to address.

I have to admit, I used "jump the shark" because I think it is an amusing phrase. I can agree that it might not be the most appropriate analogy, but nor do I think it is completely misplaced. As someone pointed out, it just may be too soon to tell.

In that regard, there has been a lot of misunderstanding--as usual--based upon holding too tightly to the letter of the law rather than the spirit. As TerraDave put it, "something has been up." WotC has been steering a wobbling ship - with an unclear course, perhaps because of confusion within the company as to the best direction to take. Does this mean they have jumped the shark with D&D? Maybe, maybe not. But at the least many have observed that they have been flailing a bit over the last eight months or so, and that this means something.

Furthermore, ppaladin123 aptly clarified what I mean by "WotC D&D" and why I used that instead of 4E. I knew this would be a problem, which is why I tried (and evidently failed) to clarify what I meant in the last paragraph of the original post. Let me clarify, again: I am not talking about 4E - that is, the game itself, or how it plays at the table. I am talking about how WotC has handled it, the business and brand name in its current iteration (and I'm not talking about older editions that WotC has published).

I love 4E the game - I think it is the best version of D&D so far, at least in terms of game design and combat, if not in terms of story and setting elements. But, as I tried to communicate in the original post, it is that the way WotC has handled 4E, especially since Fall of 2010, that has been hugely problematic, and thus when I talk about "WotC D&D jumping the shark I am talking about the company itself, or rather the brand group within the company and the direction they are steering the ship. This is not the same thing as the game or how it plays at the table.

So again, I'm not saying that 4E the game jumped the shark, but that WotC's D&D brand group may have, in terms how their handling of the game and the direction they've been going in terms of community and products.

 

[malraux]

I'll freely grant that WotC has seemed directionless for quite a while. I'll be surprised if they convince me to purchase much more from them in the next year.

As a nitpick though, jumping the shark is about picking a new direction not losing the map. IMO, WotC has been rudderless for a while.

edit: Yay for mixed metaphors!

 

[Fifth Element]

I'm sorry, I can accept the other arguments you make but this is simply wrong.

Considering the argument is one based purely on personal tastes, then it can't be wrong. Some people do seem to find DDI better now than it ever was. You can assume they're lying, but unless you do their tastes cannot simply br brushed off as being wrong.

You might find DDI now worse than it's ever been. But since there's no objective standard for goodness, I think we're better off not telling people that their tastes are wrong, even if more people agree with you than agree with them.

 

[malraux]

Considering the argument is one based purely on personal tastes, then it can't be wrong. Some people do seem to find DDI better now than it ever was. You can assume they're lying, but unless you do their tastes cannot simply br brushed off as being wrong.

You might find DDI now worse than it's ever been. But since there's no objective standard for goodness, I think we're better off not telling people that their tastes are wrong, even if more people agree with you than agree with them.

No, but there are objective standards for capacity. There's a pretty good case that the new CB is less capable than the old one. Moreover, there's a solid case that the monster builder is worse currently than it was before the buggy update.

Now the current quality of the magazines might outweigh that in determining which is better, but there are reasonably objective ways to measure the old vs the new.

 

[shamsael]

If your entire PHBI, II, III experience is clerics and wizards, then I guess you are right.

Well, considering we already have TWO martial power books, I would say the Cleric, Warlock, Wizard and Paladin were the most neglected PHB1 classes. Funny that HoS just happened to support all four of those.

 

[shamsael]

Considering the argument is one based purely on personal tastes, then it can't be wrong. Some people do seem to find DDI better now than it ever was. You can assume they're lying, but unless you do their tastes cannot simply br brushed off as being wrong.

You might find DDI now worse than it's ever been. But since there's no objective standard for goodness, I think we're better off not telling people that their tastes are wrong, even if more people agree with you than agree with them.

I'm not really worried about it since he did say he agreed with everything else I said. I knew my DDI stance was "controversial" (or as controversial as D&D fans on the internet deserve to get), and I would have tucked it into the middle of the post or left it out entirely if I wasn't responding point-for-point to the original post.