When do you throw initiative?

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Hold onto your boiled eggs, there, Grandma!

Come, learn at the feet of the master.

Readying, itself, is a standard action, right?

Certainly.

Your example here says that you will: Move, Ready Action, then Move again.

Yep.

[EDIT: Though, pedantically, I'd've written it:

My Turn:
Move Action: Move up to my speed
Standard Action: Ready (Move up to my speed later on when Trigger X happens)

Does that help you visualize what's happening? As I say later, you're "paying in advance" when you take the Ready action.]

That's not right, is it? You get a Standard Action and a Move Action in a round. You're giving the character a Standard action and two Move actions. Or, you're not counting the Readying part of the Ready Action as anything.

The rule specifically says that "readying" is a standard action.

Taking the "Ready" standard action allows you to pick any move, standard, or free action (and, later, swift actions) and do it at some later point based on a trigger you set.

The character isn't really taking three actions (effectively); they're taking two effective actions: one now, and one later. The number of things you can do in a round doesn't increase when you take the Ready action.

I think the example talking about moving to a door and readying an attack action for anyone who comes near means that the character is using his 5' step (which he always gets) to move to the door.

Nope. Why would you assume that? I mean, he *could* do that, certainly; it's an allowed option. 5' step next to the door, move action to open it (or not, if it's already open), the standard action to ready an attack if someone comes through it.

I mean, you let people ready attacks, don't you? As in, "I ready an action to hit him if he starts to cast a spell"? Wouldn't that be giving people two standard actions in a round, by your logic?

The thing is that the ready action lets you pay in advance for an action you want to take later; you spend a standard action on your turn, and can take (without "cost") any move, standard, free, or swift action later on.

 

[Dausuul]

This tracks pretty closely to my SCA tournament experience. The first person to move into range has to be prepared to defend their opponents blow.

My tactic, in D&D terms, is to move and use the standard to adopt all out defense to turn the first blow.

That's an excellent idea, although you have it backwards--you need to use total defense first, then move. (If you move first, the readied attack goes off before you get a chance to start total defense.) You give up your first attack, but in exchange you get +4 AC against the readied attack and the full attack that follows. It works best at low levels, since attack bonus tends to outstrip AC as you advance.

 

[Water Bob]

Come, learn at the feet of the master.

Ah-saw, when I can snatch the pebble from the master's hand...

My Turn:
Move Action: Move up to my speed
Standard Action: Ready (Move up to my speed later on when Trigger X happens)

I really don't think you have it right, and the rules compendium seems to back me up.

The question is: Is the act of readying, itself, a action? The book says that it is a standard action.

Thus, if you ready an action, the first part of your round is the act of readying. The last half of your round is the action that you readied.

It seems that you're combining the act of readying, which should be a standard action by itself, with the action that is being readied.



Does "readying" cost some time?

If it doesn't, then what you say is correct: A character can Move, and then Ready an attack for later in the round. The first action is the Move. The second action is the attack later in the round. "Readying" itself costs no time.

But, the rulebook says, "Readying is a standard action." If the act of readying is an action by itself, then what you say is not correct because you're allowing a character three actions in the round: Move is the first action; Readying is the second action; and the attack later in the round is the third action.

Nope. Why would you assume that?

Because it's in a paragraph that discusses the 5' step and the wording in the Rules Compendium seems to support it.

Plus, if the act of "readying" is itself an action separate from whatever action will be triggered later, it makes sense that the movement to the door is a 5' step (the example showing us that a character only gets one 5' step during a round).





EDIT: You decide to ready your spear for a suspected upcoming charge. Think about it this way: Actually taking your spear, slamming it into the ground, putting your foot on the butt, and bracing it with your arms to receive a charge is an action. This is the standard action required when readying an action.

Then, once the readied action is triggered, the attack with the spear on the oncoming charging foe is an action.

That's two actions: The first is setting the spear to receive the charge (or readying the attack action). The second is the actual attack once the charging foe comes at you (the readied action).

There's no time in the round to move before the spear is set for the charge (or "readied").

 

[ThirdWizard]

[MENTION=92305]Water Bob[/MENTION], there's no way that can be true. If it were true, in your example, the character would be taking two standard actions! That's not allowed. The Standard Action of readying allows you to ready a second action. That action is covered by the Ready and doesn't count against your actions for the round. Thus, you can, in fact, take a Move and Ready in the same round.

 

[Gryph]

That's an excellent idea, although you have it backwards--you need to use total defense first, then move. (If you move first, the readied attack goes off before you get a chance to start total defense.) You give up your first attack, but in exchange you get +4 AC against the readied attack and the full attack that follows. It works best at low levels, since attack bonus tends to outstrip AC as you advance.

True enough, thanks for the catch. We used this at our table often enough we just announced "I close defensively" to shorthand it.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

[MENTION=92305]Water Bob[/MENTION], there's no way that can be true. If it were true, in your example, the character would be taking two standard actions! That's not allowed. The Standard Action of readying allows you to ready a second action. That action is covered by the Ready and doesn't count against your actions for the round. Thus, you can, in fact, take a Move and Ready in the same round.

Exactly. That's why I asked whether or not it was possible to ready an attack.

EDIT:

Thus, if you ready an action, the first part of your round is the act of readying. The last half of your round is the action that you readied.

This is a not correct and is, I think, the root of your problem understanding the rules on readying actions.

 

[garrowolf]

@ Waterbob I wanted initiative to be a tactical issue and not a random one. The situation should determine initiative most of the time in my opinion.
In chase rules I was thinking more about vehicle chases not foot chases because you have so many added factors. I would leave initiative to the PCs through out the combat unless they chased someone else into an ambush and then the ambushers would have initiative over the PCs. Of course with a very good Perception roll they could spot the ambush and ambush the ambushers and the PCs would have initiative still.
In cases where surprise is not really an issue I will usually give it to the group that has some advantage or the greater momentum. Of course if I can't reason out a side for initiative then I will just roll.

 

[Water Bob]

@Water Bob , there's no way that can be true. If it were true, in your example, the character would be taking two standard actions! That's not allowed.

But that's what the Ready Action allows you to do, in effect.

You can Ready a Standard Action, and you can Ready an attack, which is a standard Action.

Thus, if you ready an attack, you're taking two standard actions in the same round.

The first standard action is the readying of the action. That's a standard action according to the book.

The book also says that you can ready a standard action, like an attack. Thus, the second action is also a standard action.

Like this:

1. Standard Action. Ready an attack triggered by anyone who moves in front of you.

2. Standard Action. When the action is triggered, you take an attack on the person who moves in front of you.

The Standard Action of readying allows you to ready a second action. That action is covered by the Ready and doesn't count against your actions for the round. Thus, you can, in fact, take a Move and Ready in the same round.

But, the book says that readying an action is a standard action. So, if you move, ready an attack, and then make your attack when triggered, you are taking three actions.

1. Move Action. You move.

2. Standard Action. You Ready your attack.

3. Standard Action. You attack when triggered.





Let's get some more eyes on this. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But, I don't see it at this point, given what the rule say. We're off topic anyway. I'm going to start a new thread about this very point. Hopefully someone can show me how I'm wrong about this.

 

[Lanefan]

Permit me an observation, phrased as a question:

Are you lot sure you're all reading the same rulebook, and if not, that the different books have these rules as exactly the same?

So far in this thread, at least one of you has quoted the 3.5e PH. One or more others has quoted the Rules Compendium....

If they're in fact giving different rules for the same thing, no wonder you're all confused.

Lan-"you never get initiative when you don't know what just killed you"-efan

 

[Water Bob]

I have seen the light. See the other thread.