When does D&D become d20M?

[Vigilance]

Topic says it all. Im wondering when d20 Modern classes would "take over" from D&D and I keep pushing the boundary forward in time.

If you had asked me a month ago I would have said the 19th century, then I would have said the mid-late 19th century (say the 1860's).

Now Im waffling between that number (1860) and the 20th century (1900).

What do you guys think?

Part of me thinks the Civil War might be a good place to draw the line.

Chuck

 

[The Shaman]

I...have no idea how to answer this.

:\

D&D and d20 Modern do not share an inherent timeline (or universe) in the core RAW - if you want them to for your game they can, but then it's up to you to choose.

The technology of D&D is an anachronistic mishmash from anywhere between 500 BC to AD 1600, and some points on either side of those dates as well, plus a lot of just plain ol' made- up stuff. Modern's intrinsic equipment list is squarely turn of the millenium.

I'm really grasping at straws here. Could you tell me a little bit more about the game you're thinking of running?

 

[Khorod]

I judge that by the treatment of humanity as a whole implied by the rules.

D&D has always treated the great mass of humanity as all-10's, faceless peasants in the background. The Modern approach recognizes a great deal more individual variance and capability.

I think the changeover is really more the Age of Enlightenment, when the basic philosophy over how individuality and society is viewed became Modern.

However, that is the social change. Now consider the requirements of combat and technology, and the turning point is when Melee becomes a secondary tactic in warfare. This leaves the changeover in the 18th century.

 

[C. Baize]

I think it would be the change from when a person's occupation defined them to when it became what the PERSON did for a living.
In other words, when The Cop became Rory O'Donagh, he's a police officer.

 

[trancejeremy]

Well, I would say never. Because I don't see one superceding one or another. They are just different takes on the class system

You could use the d20 modern basic classes in any era without any problems. (Though not all occupations would be available. And of course the problems inherent in d20 Modern, IMHO, but that's another thread...).

Conversely, most the non-magical ones would work in a game based on Earth . Why is a "Rogue" of today any different than a Rogue from 1500 or -500? Same with a fighter.
Pretty much every non d20 Modern d20 game set in modern times or the future has a class that is basically the Fighter, just renamed.

Heck, Dragonstar worked quite well and it was simply D&D with high technology.

People seem to think D&D tries to re-create medieval Earth. But to me, I don't think that was ever the case. It was just meant to duplicate (or make a game of) fantasy fiction , which is completely different.

I mean, there have never been D&D style Wizards or Clerics on earth. Some spells are inspired by real world legends. But did Merlin have spell slots? Or John Dee? Or Doug Henning? (I know, few literary ones did either)

That's the advantage d20 Modern has over D&D. Because there are 6 basic classes, none of them magical, it can represent the real world better rather than the what, 2 non-magical D&D classes (3 if you include the Barbarian). But even then, I don't think it does as good a job as a regular d20 product tailored for that era. For instance, OGL Ancients is better for the Ancients period than just about anything.

 

[dvvega]

It all depends on what you think should happen to hardcore D&D magic/religion.

d20M has magic but its not as common as D&D, so when did magic take a backseat.

The industrial revolution is probably a big time for this. Perhaps during the Renaissance. People were turning more to mechanics and engineering and away from their old ways. Of course there were still cabals around and this could lead to the secret societies we have always had in our world mythology.

During the inquisition period there could definately be witches and warlocks. Perhaps this was the time of turning away from evil and moving forward.

You could even say that d20M classes (Fast, Strong, etc) existed alongside D&D but they were not pronounced enough as to be adventurers. A gladiator could have been one of the d20M characters and never have done anything but fight in the arena until death or release.

Then the industrial revolution (or other period in history) hits and the main adventuring classes suddenly start to decline. Wizards start losing their connection to the ether, Priests lose most of their divinity except in rare circumstances (cults) and so forth.

D

 

[Turanil]

Im wondering when d20 Modern classes would "take over" from D&D.

What do you guys think?

Personally I would do it that way:
-- Before 1600: D&D
-- 1600-1850: D&D classes slowly disappear being replaced with d20 Past classes.
-- 1850-1939: d20 Past
-- 1945-2020: d20 Modern
-- 2021-+: d20 Future.

 

[MonsterMash]

Personally I would do it that way:
-- Before 1600: D&D
-- 1600-1850: D&D classes slowly disappear being replaced with d20 Past classes.
-- 1850-1939: d20 Past
-- 1945-2020: d20 Modern
-- 2021-+: d20 Future.

That seems pretty viable, though as I only own D&D and D20M I'd pretty much just use those classes. The modern ones are more flexible than the archetypal core D&D classes.

 

[JPL]

Mostly a matter of taste, I think.

I've been looking at the Green Ronin Medieval Player's Handbook and thinking...wouldn't this be cooler as d20 Modern, with a Knight advanced class and a Crusader prestige class and such? And that's medieval England --- squarely in the heart of D&D territory.

But my d20 library is big enough that I tend to just see it all as the same thing these days. A low-magic medieval d20 Modern game with knight and priest advanced classes, incantation magic instead of spells, maybe armor providing damage resistance, maybe VP/WP or even a damage save? Why not?

 

[Henry]

Roughly AD 1600 - after all, the pirate-themed campaign in d20 Past uses the 1600's pirate boom in the Caribbean as a backdrop, and the old Campaign book A Mighty Fortress uses 2nd edition D&D classes pretty well, so for some reason around 1600 just feels right to me.

This assumes you wanted to do it at all, of course.