When does D&D become d20M?

[SWBaxter]

Topic says it all. Im wondering when d20 Modern classes would "take over" from D&D and I keep pushing the boundary forward in time.

If you had asked me a month ago I would have said the 19th century, then I would have said the mid-late 19th century (say the 1860's).

Now Im waffling between that number (1860) and the 20th century (1900).

What do you guys think?

Part of me thinks the Civil War might be a good place to draw the line.

If I had to pick a line, I'd draw it somewhere around 1600 for Europe. My basic way of approaching the problem is asking "When did the sort of training-from-childhood to produce an elite warrior become cost ineffective?" That to me marks the transition of the fighter from D&D class to d20M profession - when a lifetime of training and the benefits of high social standing no longer give you much of an edge over the grunts, then the dedicated fighter classes fade out. This differs from culture to culture, of course.

 

[GlassJaw]

Personally I would do it that way:
-- Before 1600: D&D
-- 1600-1850: D&D classes slowly disappear being replaced with d20 Past classes.
-- 1850-1939: d20 Past
-- 1945-2020: d20 Modern
-- 2021-+: d20 Future.

Or just use one book for all of them: Grim Tales.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I always assumed that in a setting using the d20 modern classes that those classes had always been used. No reason you can't have a fantasy semi-historical setting with d20 modern classes (in fact I might try this sometime).

 

[The_Universe]

I'd probably use D20 Modern in a game set sometime around the real world 1700AD or later, unless it was just an advancement of the timeline from a pre-existing D&D world. At that point, I'd probably use the Defense Bonus rules from Unearthed Arcana with D&D classes in order to avoid having to explain why magical power had inexplicably decreased.

 

[Stormborn]

I think never. The world of DnD is not our earth and its classes, even given NPC classes, just don't match up with any historical time frame. On the other hand, d20 M is specifically intended to model the real world, mostly.
I think d20M can be used for any time period, with some tweaks for technology. The same can most likely be said for DnD, but with more revisions, but it will never be a world that resembles ours.
They weren't intended to slide one into the other, they represent different and often competing world paradigms.

 

[takyris]

I like Turanil's timeline. That's what I'd use for my rule of thumb, although I'd agree that you can use d20 Modern (with the Past era-book) for earlier periods or D&D for later periods, depending on what kind of campaign you want to run. In general, if I hear someone say that they're using a WotC rulebook to run a game set in a fantasy world with a tech level of 1600 or earlier, I'm thinking D&D. If later, I'm thinking d20 Modern.

 

[Kugar]

Choose the rules that define the genre not the time

I personally never think of any historical era being well modeled by DnD

If we look at the two systems I think there are 3 lines to be drawn:
Wealth:
If your fictional society developed to the point where banking and credit are common, then we start to find benefit using a wealth system d20M.

Magic:
Most of the time, in DnD magic is seen as a strategic tool used to "go through the dungeon" (dungeon having a very wide definition). When your common invisibility spell is powerful enough to really mess up the social aspect of the game (think about invisible bank robbers or teleporting terrorists) then d20M is the way to go.

Technology:
Clarke made a great observation about magic and technology.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
When you want a world where technological weapons are just as fatal as magic spells use d20M.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Or just use one book for all of them: Grim Tales.

What he said.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Topic says it all. Im wondering when d20 Modern classes would "take over" from D&D and I keep pushing the boundary forward in time.

If you had asked me a month ago I would have said the 19th century, then I would have said the mid-late 19th century (say the 1860's).

Now Im waffling between that number (1860) and the 20th century (1900).

What do you guys think?

Part of me thinks the Civil War might be a good place to draw the line.

Chuck

It depends on how much magic and how historical your campaign is, IMO, rather than the actual year. I can make a better caveman with D20 Modern than with DnD. Cavemen don't carry around magic weapons - at least, not according to the fossil record I can also run a campaign set in AD 190 better in D20 Modern than in DnD.

 

[jaerdaph]

d20 Past implies the Renaissance and beyond for d20 Modern classes.

Back in the day (before d20) when I was a member of the Kargatane (the old official Ravenloft Web site), we had this discussion about the AD&D classes and kits (remember those!) and the Masque of the Red Death classes and kits. I think we decided that the switch would be at the start of the industrial revolution (late 18th early 19th century) or about where you were thinking, Chuck.