When does D&D stop becoming D&D?

[Zaruthustran]

Well, technically, Dungeons and Dragons is a brand. And so long as that brand exists, any game published with that on the cover will have the weight of the brand behind it, regardless of whether it plays like Monopoly or GURPS. In this respect, the question you should ask yourself is, "does WotC have what it takes to manage the brand." (IMNSHO: Yes, they do.)

Quoted for truth. The rest of it was really good too.

To the OP: Monte's Arcana Evolved is not D&D. However, if he published that while still working at WotC, it would have been D&D. The content doesn't matter; the name on the cover matters.

Each edition of D&D is in fact a new game. Only the themes and core brand elements (classes, stats, HPs, etc.) carry over. 4E continues this pattern. It's a new game. It's not OD&D, 2nd Ed, or 3E. But it's definitely D&D. You can tell by looking at the cover.

 

[Derro]

As an RPG, I think it leaves much to be desired-- but as a tactical minis game I think it will be great-- especially since you can pretend that your playing piece is actually talking and emote for him, etc instead of just moving them around w/ no interaction at all... So it is going back to its roots as a tactical wargame-- and that is just fine for the old schoolers I think. Right?

(Emphasis mine)

That's almost precisely the assessment my gaming group gave when we started getting some of the information after the release announcement. I'm surprised it's not a more common perception. So the question here is 4e new or divergent evolution of the original product?

 

[Wolfspider]

The content doesn't matter; the name on the cover matters.

Bollocks.

Of course, you waffle a bit later in your post from this stance, saying that there are, in fact, core elements and themes that make D&D D&D, but the sentence I quoted here is nonsense.

If Wotc bought the Hero System and slapped "Dungeons & Dragons" on it, the resulting book would NOT be Dungeons and Dragons, despite having that name on the cover.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

It is D&D, of course; the spirit is there. To say otherwise for me is foolish to a point.

 

[Sphyre]

To the individual: D&D ceases to be D&D when the the edition no longer embodies that which the individual feels D&D is to that person. This means that any one person may see any edition as D&D or not, but not all will be in agreement.

To the whole: D&D ceases to be D&D when a majority (as in at least 51%, possibly more) of people who play the game agree that the new rules of an edition cease to embody what they feel D&D is. Since there it's based on the sum of individuals, it would take a large variance to be accepted by a whole group, that it is no longer D&D.

Legally: The game being released ceases to be D&D when what is released lacks the D&D license.

 

[mhensley]

It has a lot more in common w/ a minis game or computer "tactics" game than an actual rpg. After battles you automatically get all better-- no need for fooling around with medical stuff. Any social interaction can be handed by a few dice rolls or a/b/c choices. You move in squares instead of feet-- and you can blast enemies w/ magic all day long just in the same way as an archer can shoot arrows all day long. You have special "limit breaks" or daily abilities that can be used agaimst the boss monsters, as well as all sorts of other special attacks that you gain every level or so... And playing it makes use of a line of minis & terrain w/ special effects, etc.

I could say exactly the same things about the 3.5 game I'm running right now. The amount of magic available to high level parties make all of these things so. 4e just builds it into the characters instead.

 

[Wolfspider]

I could say exactly the same things about the 3.5 game I'm running right now. The amount of magic available to high level parties make all of these things so. 4e just builds it into the characters instead.

What's 3rd edition got to do with it?

 

[Xethreau]

What is D&D to me is mostly fluff. There are some mechanical things (classes, dice, d20,

What makes core D&D for me:
Midevil (sp?) fantasy RP
Modern Fantasy Races (like high elves, wood elves, dark elves, dwarves, haflings, etc.)
The existence of magic, gods, and the supernatural
Dragons, Beholders, Terrasques, Liches, Mindflayers and other baddies
Owlbears, trolls, kobolds, goblinoids, harpys, hellhounds, golems, and undead
Fey, unicorns, flying horses, grand dwarven halls, serene elven forests
Portable holes, Flaming Longswords, Dwarven Waraxes, Longbows, and Elven Thinblades
Artifacts, Weapons of Legacy, Sovereign Glue, and the Deck of Many Things
Mithral, Adamant, and Dragonhide armor
Turn Undead, Magic Missile, Sneak Attack, Cleave, Smite
Wizard towers, Underdark, trapped dungeons, dark forests, helpless villages, reigning empires, and mysterious realms
Awakened Plants and Animals, gazing into a crystal ball, Fortunes of Ravenloft, and lucky halflings

What is traditionally D&D, but I could live without:
Planescape, Greyhawk
Clerics in armor
Riding dogs
Remorhaz, Achaierai, Lammasu, and Ropers
4 different kinds of Sphynx
"Gorgons"
Nixies and Grigs
Nagas

What is not D&D to me:
Lazer guns
Guns
Spaceships (not to be confused with Elemental Vessels)
Klingons, Wookies, and the Force (not to be confused with Psionics)
Bunny girls (Not to be confused with Catfolk)
Godmode-ing
Mary Sue
Limit Breaks (Not to be confused with Daily powers and Action Points)
The Heart of the Cards
Jewl-Riders and Dragonflies

 

[Rpgraccoon]

D&D is Table Top role-playing game. Acting and imagination is fundamental. Miniatures and visual aids are not necessary to jump in and play as the DM is an avid story teller and he can easily set the seen.

Traditional Icons of D&D:

Fantasy Setting

Alignment: Law, Chaos, Good, Evil

Schools of Magic: Conjuration, Evocation, Divination, Necromancy, Illusion, Transmutation, Enchantment, Abjuration

Races/Monsters: Elves, Half-Elves, Tieflings, Gnolls, Devils, Beholders, Gold/Black Dragons etc..

Classes: Fighter, Mage-Magic-User, Thief

The Planes TSR www.pathguy.com

Polyhedron Die d20

Classic Fantasy Settings from TSR

Non-Traditional D&D: Futuristic, Present Day, & Post Apocalyptic settings. However, they can be done and quite well. Example: Dark Sun

However all those can be done extremely while using the traditional D&D model.

 

[_sheepy_]

To me, D&D means Dragons. And dungeons.

And great adventures featuring dungeons and dragons.