CuriousBard
First Post
If an invisible PC with multiple attacks uses his full-round action to attack at +15/+10/+5, when does the Invisibility cancel out? After the +15 is made? Or at the end of his action? (hence at the end of his last attack).
When does Invisibility drop while attacking?
- Thread starter CuriousBard
- Start date
SpikeyFreak
First Post
There was a really long debate about this here and on Monte's boards a while back.
We never came to a solid conclusion, but most people thought that it would go away after the first attack.
--Summation Spikey
We never came to a solid conclusion, but most people thought that it would go away after the first attack.
--Summation Spikey
Voadam
Legend
I had a thread on here asking pretty much the same question (mine was about a full attacking high level two weapon fighting ranger/Rogue with an invisibility ring)
Here is the relevant quote from the invisibility spell on the srd "The spell ends if the
subject attacks any creature."
This is generally interpreted to mean immediately after the first attack (not full attack) the invisibility is broken and the target is no longer denied his dex against the attacker. It does not say "attack action" so when the first attack in the full attack happens the spell ends.
For that first attack, the target is denied his dex bonus against the attack (and can be sneak attacked) and the attacker gets a +2 bonus.
Some stated the target would not get his dex bonus back until his next action but there was never any rules support for that position, just some peoples statements that it was so.
Here is the relevant quote from the invisibility spell on the srd "The spell ends if the
subject attacks any creature."
This is generally interpreted to mean immediately after the first attack (not full attack) the invisibility is broken and the target is no longer denied his dex against the attacker. It does not say "attack action" so when the first attack in the full attack happens the spell ends.
For that first attack, the target is denied his dex bonus against the attack (and can be sneak attacked) and the attacker gets a +2 bonus.
Some stated the target would not get his dex bonus back until his next action but there was never any rules support for that position, just some peoples statements that it was so.
Just pokin'.
BlindKobold
First Post
I don't agree with Caliban or the others.... gee... not the first time... sure won't be the last.... =)
You see, the way 3rd edition mechanics work, the multiple attacks really go off at the same time.... meaning, in the same round. No you say? Prove it. Show me a scenario in any of the core books that show two people with multiple attacks and the same initiative trading blows.... you won't find one. You'll never see this:
Bert, +12, +6, +1
Ernie, +12, +6, +1
On their iniative, you don't see Bert make one attack at +12, then Ernie make one attack at +12, then Bert make one attack at +6, then Ernie.... you get the idea. Otherwise, Bert could use his first attack to trip Ernie, then ernie loses his attacks because he needs to stand up... which happens when? Before, after or during Bert's other attacks?
Want more confusion? Two-weapon fighting... are you attacking with one weapon, then the other? Or both at the same time? PROVE using the core rules or errata that both attacks don't happen at the same time.
So if, by game mechanics and not physics, the attacks happen at the same time, then the person is denied their DEX against the all the attackers attacks... not just the first one.
Generally, when you are flat-footed, you do not regain your DEX until it is YOUR turn. There really aren't any exceptions that I'm aware of. Even if you are just flat-footed to one person... I would think the rule would apply... you need to wait until your turn until you can properly react to a new threat.
ALSO... consider this. During a suprise round, Bert suprises Ernie. Bert gets a free partial action and attacks Ernie. Now, they both roll initiative. Bert wins. Even though Ernie has seen Bert, Bert has attacked Ernie and Ernie KNOWS Bert is there.... he IS STILL FLAT-FOOTED until his turn.
Just food for thought.
Until an official word is released.... it will all be conjecture anyway.
You see, the way 3rd edition mechanics work, the multiple attacks really go off at the same time.... meaning, in the same round. No you say? Prove it. Show me a scenario in any of the core books that show two people with multiple attacks and the same initiative trading blows.... you won't find one. You'll never see this:
Bert, +12, +6, +1
Ernie, +12, +6, +1
On their iniative, you don't see Bert make one attack at +12, then Ernie make one attack at +12, then Bert make one attack at +6, then Ernie.... you get the idea. Otherwise, Bert could use his first attack to trip Ernie, then ernie loses his attacks because he needs to stand up... which happens when? Before, after or during Bert's other attacks?
Want more confusion? Two-weapon fighting... are you attacking with one weapon, then the other? Or both at the same time? PROVE using the core rules or errata that both attacks don't happen at the same time.
So if, by game mechanics and not physics, the attacks happen at the same time, then the person is denied their DEX against the all the attackers attacks... not just the first one.
Generally, when you are flat-footed, you do not regain your DEX until it is YOUR turn. There really aren't any exceptions that I'm aware of. Even if you are just flat-footed to one person... I would think the rule would apply... you need to wait until your turn until you can properly react to a new threat.
ALSO... consider this. During a suprise round, Bert suprises Ernie. Bert gets a free partial action and attacks Ernie. Now, they both roll initiative. Bert wins. Even though Ernie has seen Bert, Bert has attacked Ernie and Ernie KNOWS Bert is there.... he IS STILL FLAT-FOOTED until his turn.
Just food for thought.
Until an official word is released.... it will all be conjecture anyway.
