When is a Paladin better to have in a fight than a Fighter?

[Ridley's Cohort]

When does the paladin do better than a fighter?

(1) When the pokemount is a significant asset. Normal horses are not sturdy enough into mid-levels and never work out in dungeons. The pokemount can make an appearance in the dungeon if really needed.

(2) When there are lots and lots of saving throws. The benefits against spellcasters are obvious. But there are a lot of common undead and poisonous critters that can easily force 2-6 saving throws per combat; the Fighter looks a lot weaker here even when we are talking about Fort saves.

(3) When holding the battleline is more important than damage output. It is not uncommon for Fighters to outdamage Paladins by ~50%. In some parties it is more important to protect the archer or Wizard in the back than to kill the beastie standing in front of you. High saving throws, lay on hands, a few odd spells give a nice edge in staying power.

 

[Kaji]

One of my mates plays a paladin in our good vs evil campaign, and he is a pretty mena power gamer, so he took all feats that geared him up to hell on wheels. When he goes against any evil creature (which, of course, is most of them), he lays on the Divine Smite, Divine Grace, Power Attack, and some other nonsense he found in a splatbook and destroys all who resist. With MASSIVE damage. And while I 'm trying to Charm him (good luck!) or blast him with some spell, he's gone and killed the main bad guy, resited my efforts to mitigate him with spells, and now the rest of the tribe/clan/gang of baddies are just mop up for the bards (just kidding! ). It's amazing stuff.
Plus, there are a number of great paths to pursue via pretige or feats from Boof of Exalted Deeds that use a paladins turning attempts (which are not worth much if you have a cleric around) and turn them into GREAT boosts for said paladin. It might not be for everyone, but I would hardly poorly compare a paladin to a fighter any day.

 

[Malk]

when he's your best friend

 

[EyeforanEye2]

Well, simply put, a fighter/warrior cannot turn undead...

 

[Dark Jezter]

When the pokemount is a significant asset. Normal horses are not sturdy enough into mid-levels and never work out in dungeons. The pokemount can make an appearance in the dungeon if really needed.

True, and the ranger's pokeanimal pokecompanion usually isn't strong enough for fighting monsters in dungeons. Although when it comes to summoning in an emergency, I prefer to have a wizard who can summon a strong pokecreature. Higher level clerics can also bring in a pokeplanar pokeally, although that costs money. Higher-level druids can also pokesummon nature's ally to bring in a pokeelemental (which can be quite useful).

Now, back to the subject at hand on when a paladin is better to have than a fighter. I've noticed that paladins armed with Holy Avengers are very good magekillers; not only do they have good spell resistance, but paladins also have very good saving throws due to divine grace. An enemy spellcaster will be hard-pressed to cast a spell on a holy avenger-armed paladin.

 

[Henry]

Ever? One of the Paladin's primary purposes is to destroy evil, but a Fighter's +4 damage from Greater Weapon Specialization will exceed a Paladin's Smite Attack damage in most fights (do to iterative attacks), sometimes even in one round, and its never "used up" as long as the Fighter has the weapon.

Actually, I'd care to dispute that a bit. The fighter needs to be 12th level to have that weapon specialization; further, he's not getting more than three iterative attacks (without two weapons, that is) until after 16th level, at which time the paladin is still matching the bonus damage dollar for dollar. The paladin is doing his level in damage with each smite, so unless the battle takes more than 3 or 4 rounds, then the fighter's not going to pull ahead on greater wpn. specialization alone.

HOWEVER, the paladin is more desirable specifically in fights agains evil beings, and evil undead in particular. An undead should look at a paladin with the same or greater level of aversion as he does a cleric of a sun god - that paladin, between warrior skills, undead turning, fear resistance, laying on hands, curing whatever nasty attacks the undead uses, spells, etc. is going to see the paladin as pure anathema. The paladin is the evil undead creature's perfect opposite, with maybe exception of clerics of a sun god as I mentioned.

 

[Henry]

Although when it comes to summoning in an emergency, I prefer to have a wizard who can summon a strong pokecreature.

The paladin, however does have one leg up on the wizard when he can summon that creature, ride it, and be more effective than without it.

I've noticed that paladins armed with Holy Avengers are very good magekillers; not only do they have good spell resistance, but paladins also have very good saving throws due to divine grace. An enemy spellcaster will be hard-pressed to cast a spell on a holy avenger-armed paladin.

True, that, and one thought I honestly never considered. Even in 1st edition, this was true - spellcasters would HATE to have to take down a paladin, because with that Holy Avenger in hand, they were God's Vengance on Two Legs.

 

[FireLance]

Higher-level druids can also pokesummon nature's ally to bring in a pokeelemental (which can be quite useful).

Pokeshouldn't pokethat pokebe pokesummon pokenature's pokeally?

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

A high level paladin can lay the smack down with multiple smites in one round if he needs to. This means that, the round after the Aspect of Hextor charges the 12th level paladin, he can (if he's willing to risk the full attack from the Aspect), activate Divine Might, Smite evil (primary), smite evil again on his secondary attack, and smite evil a third time on his tertiary attack. Sure, he's done for the day then, but even with a 20 charisma (not hard by that level), that's 51 points of damage just from smite and divine might alone. And the smite makes his tertiary attack about as good as the fighter's secondary attack. After that, he's not so impressive, but, at high levels, paladins can really lay the smack down for one or two rounds.

In general, though, I agree with your assessment. For most things and even for fighting evil, fighters are generally better than paladins unless the paladin gets to use his mount. Paladins with Spirited Charge, Smite, Divine Might, etc really rack up the damage but otherwise, it's rather difficult to make a paladin an effective combatant.

Fear effects and saves tend to make paladins shine but, unless a paladin has access to vests of resistance, his saves aren't really THAT much better than a fighter's. The paladin buys a cloak of charisma +6 for +3 to saves and gets 4 points or so from base charisma. The fighter buys a cloak of resistance +5 and spends a feat on Iron Will. The paladin's will save will probably still be better but only because he has wisdom. The paladin's reflex save will be a little bit better. The paladin's fort save will be similar (since the fighter can buy an amulet of health instead of a periapt of wisdom). Let the paladin get a vest of resistance +5 and his saves go through the roof though. Fear effects can be an issue when and if they come up but I haven't noticed them coming up a lot.

 

[Gothic_Demon]

Has everyone completely forgotten that a Paladin is also a spellcaster? Throw into the mix a little Bull's Strength, Shield Other, Magic Circle vs. Evil, and a liberal helping of Dispel Magic and Dispel Evil, and your Paladin can deal with any opponent. Your fighter simply can't match up to that.