When Is PC Death Worst?

[Ariosto]

Yes, "extra work" is a key issue.

In both GURPS and RoleMaster, I have had characters bite the dust after basically just a few seconds of active play. (If there had been more to do beforehand, instead of starting in a fight, then I could have gotten so many more minutes out of them.) Maybe those were flukes that one should not expect to see in a thousand character-hours of play, but in the event they happened right off the bat.

In OD&D, I would not mind. It takes but a very few minutes to roll up even an experienced character (even a magic-user) without Supplement I elaborations. Replacing a 1st-level character is simple. Moreover, canny players will tend eventually to acquire as many henchmen as their charisma and circumstances permit, and to cultivate the careers of at least a couple.

With GURPS and RM, it takes longer. The very amount of effort put into generating a unique set of "stats" (include skill ratings, advantages, and so on) makes it seem awkward to recycle a character sheet. The numbers are more distinctly associated with "Allen Miller" than in OD&D, in which it is chiefly biography -- in my experience, above all what has been done in the game -- that distinguishes A.M. from Eric Carpenter.

There is a similar effect when pre-game PC biography is critical to a scenario. That is one reason I tend to prefer more open situations to more carefully plotted ones. However, I find it easier to improvise satisfying quick fixes in a plot-heavy case than in a mechanics-heavy one.

In general, the greater the investment in such preparations, the greater the inconvenience of sudden, chance-based character death.

One solution, though, is to put in enough more work ahead of time to have a "bullpen" of characters ready. If character generation makes for a fun solitaire entertainment, then this may work quite well.

 

[steenan]

I voted other.

It doesn't matter if I'm the GM, the dying character's player or another player. A PC death is most unpleasant if the character is taken from a middle of an arc, with many plots unresolved, when it disrupts the flow of the story being created.

I had many characters that died and it was a part of the fun for me. There were a lot of other characters' deaths that either added a lot of drama, or just weren't problems because these characters did nothing meaningful. I killed many as a GM, with no doubt and no regret.

But there also were unnecessary deaths that added nothing and took away a significant part of fun. These most often come from misunderstanding, stupidity or inappropriate game mechanics. Deaths that don't fit the genre of the game as it is perceived by people at the table. It's also the type of death that brings bad reactions from players and it adds to the unpleasantness.

 

[Noir le Lotus]

I share the opinion of Steenan : having my PC killed doesn't bother me usually but the circumstances of the death can annoy me.

 

[ExploderWizard]

As a DM the worst character deaths are those due to poor dice rolling in situations where the decision making was not faulty.

As a player the worst character deaths are the ones which are not particularly memorable or funny. It can be utterly meaningless in the context of the campaign as long as it's good for a laugh.

 

[karlindel]

I voted when I'm the player whose PC died, but none of these options differentiate what makes a PC death bother me.

As others have mentioned, PC deaths are worst when the death has no real meaning, such as being due merely to random bad luck or to a random encounter. If a PC falls holding off a monster so that the party can escape, that doesn't bother me, and that is an awesome way to die. Being killed fighting the BBEG also doesn't bother me. Getting killed by a random encounter sucks, getting killed by a crit from a random mook in a random encounter is even worse.

PC death is made worse the more time and effort has been put into the PC. Death of a PC in a one-off adventure isn't a big deal. The death of a mid or high level PC in a multi-year campaign is worse. The death of a PC with minimal back story that got thrown together quickly to start a campaign isn't a big deal. The death of a PC with a detailed back story and strong ties to the campaign world and storyline is much worse.

And, of course, another consideration is the cost of dying. PC death is less of a problem when Raise Dead and the like are affordable. PC death is worse the higher the cost of being brought back to life (in monetary and game mechanical penalties such as lost levels) and how difficult it is to be brought back to life (if it is even possible).

 

[Remathilis]

Is that worse than "Rocks fall and one character dies. (Rolls a die) It's WarlockLord's PC. Bye."?

Isn't that tantamount to Save-or-Die though (perhaps without the save part)?

 

[athos]

I don't mind dying as a PC as long as we had our chance to win. If the dice go sour, or we have bad tactics and we lose, that is fine, I can live with that.

What I think really sucks pond water, is when the DM doesn't have a clue how to generate encounters and makes something that is way over the party's head. For example, last week in my L5R game, the DM made a CR 6 encounter for our level 1 party, and then was shocked when we were TPK'd by it. I pointed out to him that it should TPK most level 1 parties, because of the difficulty. His reply was, "Well, you did have some bad rolls".

To me, that just sucks.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

It's worst for me when I'm the DM.

As a player, I feel a pang when I lose a PC I'm enjoying, or when someone else loses a PC they're enjoying. But as a DM, it's more of a loss. It's not exactly because of the PITA of bringing in another PC, but rather a recognition of the loss of all of my ideas and so forth for the dead PC.

On the rare occasions when we've had a TPK, it's actually depressed me, and it sometimes takes me a couple of days to pull out of the funk.

Just to follow up on a tangent ... isn't at least part of the question of whether a PC's death is "meaningless" dependent upon the other PCs' reaction to that death? I'm not one of those people who thinks that a PC death due to bad luck, for example, or at the hands of a wandering monster, is by-definition meaningless.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Voted 'other' because it depends on whether the PC death was 'meaningless' and what the circumstances of the death were...

As a player; when the DM decides my character has to die, whether because I short-circuited his cool plot-line or because I was dating his ex... whatever.
[sblock]...like the time my thief was killed by a save-or-die trap located in the sewage pipes of a museums public restroom... really? a 1/2 ton block of granite triggered by a polymorphed-into-rat form thief?[/sblock]

As a GM; when the player decides he/she is bored and commits PC suicide, risking the teams success.

As a GM; when the player is obsinate and argumentative..
[sblock].. like the time the Paladin in full plate swore that the line 'magical armor doesn't encumber you' meant it was weightless and he could walk into the swamp, despite the entire group telling him the metal armor still weighed 100s of pounds and that he would sink to his death.[/sblock]


On the other end.. last session a player had his character sacrifice himself instead of forcing the group to kill a good Ghaele in an arena battle situation. That was the highlight of the evening! Awesome roleplaying, and the death meant something!

 

[danzig138]

I voted Other since there was not a NOTA option. Char death doesn't bother me either as a player or GM.

The DM, on the other hand, faces the headache of incorporating a new character into the adventure on the fly.

Oh, that explains part of why it doesn't bother me. I have no problem telling the player of a freshly dead character that I'll bring his new character in when an opportunity presents itself. I'm not going to force the entry of a new character. I'll let him him know if it is likely to be that session or not, and if not, he's welcome to head on out if he wants or he can stay and hang out.

I pointed out to him that it should TPK most level 1 parties, because of the difficulty. His reply was, "Well, you did have some bad rolls".

To me, that just sucks.

That does suck. His reply should have been "You should have run away." But for a lot of groups, that situation does suck. The group should be informed up front if the GM is going to provide non-balanced encounters so they know sometimes a stand-up fight isn't in their best interests. I also like to periodically remind players by saying things like "You know if you go to The Dire Swamp of Low Level Character Slaughter, there's a particularly good chance you'll all die, right? You do? Well, okay then. Two weeks pass . . ."

Fully aware that my style isn't for everyone.