When Player Driven Adventures Don't Pan Out

I don't think I've ever been in a player driven campaign that worked. The majority of people I've gamed with have been people playing TTRPGs because someone else in the group wants to (Up until about 4 months ago I only gamed with people I knew IRL) and just...don't really do anything but fill a seat. My current group (until I get frustrated and stop again) is more enthusiastic about playing but also don't really make decisions.
I'm currently playing in a game the DM wants to be player driven, and I rarely feel like we have enough information to do it. I believe the people who say this play style works for them but based on my experiences it's genuinely difficult for me to imagine it.
 

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I don't think I've ever been in a player driven campaign that worked. The majority of people I've gamed with have been people playing TTRPGs because someone else in the group wants to (Up until about 4 months ago I only gamed with people I knew IRL) and just...don't really do anything but fill a seat. My current group (until I get frustrated and stop again) is more enthusiastic about playing but also don't really make decisions.
I'm currently playing in a game the DM wants to be player driven, and I rarely feel like we have enough information to do it. I believe the people who say this play style works for them but based on my experiences it's genuinely difficult for me to imagine it.
The GM piece is usually overlooked. Player driven doesn't mean the GM sits back and waits, but a lot of GMs seem to think so.
 

I've done a lot of this, mostly running but also recently playing as a DM adopted

My standard for running is a hybrid, of making a lot of paths available and then following on player interest. I have no idea where my campaigns will end up when I start, including what the end will be. My last campaign started with exploring a newly discovered continent and ended with a frontal assault from the moon on the regent forced on the child-empress by the council of nobles. Yeah, nothing I expected. The campaign before that started with no plan at all in place from me, and ended up with foiling a decades-long plan by the queen of the elves to start a war to use the blood and deaths to summon a horror to destroy a floating city that she believed was the phylactery of the lich lord of the undead, with other things along the way such as helping the high druid sacrifice herself to grow a new world tree to balance out the three worlds. It was a far ranging campaign, and the plots that got put in place were all because of player interest and character actions.

When I say hybrid, "full" player driven is that the players are proactive and the world reacts but in my campaign both those reactions as well as things the PCs didn't deal with may come up with situations they want to react to.

I create a lot of hooks that I don't use, and I improv a lot as players decide to do something novel or even something I predicted but not as likely and didn't flesh out, which is pretty common. My prep is often broad strokes of different things they might do, unless they have locked themselves into something. An example of locking themselves in was when they infiltrated the Imperial Catacombs full of undead ancestors who took blood oaths to support the line, I could prep a few sessions of a dungeon.

I did have feedback from that at the beginning of the campaign they weren't sure what to do, because I had given them lots of freedom and too many things of interest to do so they couldn't come to a consensus or judge what they were more interested in persuing. From my perspective it was just information so they could chose what to do, from their perspective it was a bunch of hooks they were looking at traditionally and they had problems evaluating which to do. Once they got a clear idea what was important to their characters though they found it much easier to direct and a better experience.

One group that I play with the GM ran basing on The Gamemaster's Book of Proactive Roleplaying, which recommends all PCs have three goals of varying lengths. But the group was very inconsistant about giving him these. He worked in character arcs for all of us based on backstory to help fill that void, which to me is also player-guided even if not the method from that book. We also had a bunch of "filler" sessions, because a lot of the goals that were stated were diplomacy/intrigue/investigation based, but when he would meta-ask players what they were interested in at the end of a session so he could prep, we often had players requesting combat if we hadn't seen any in the session, so we'd often get pulled (PCs reacting, not proactive) into situations and sidequests of combat. In the end, I think it was poor group goal setting, goals that didn't weave together with other character goals, and player meta-interest in combat that the GM didn't weave into our goals except as speed bumps that caused issues. Also there were places were we didn't have enough information to choose a path to pursue a goal, nor a path on how to get that information.

From seeing that side of it, it gave me a lot of perspective for how to run my next campaign.
Just wanted to add one thing. I combined two player-driven things in my last campaign, but I did it poorly and it was a lesson for my next one.

In a classic sandbox, different areas can be quite different level than then PCs, and as long as you telegraph it that's fine.

When players are setting goals for their characters for the DM to incorporate, such as using the method from The Gamemaster's Book of Proactive Roleplay, players set three goals for their characters which can be various lengths. Like you might have some immediate steps or short term steps towards a medium-term or long-term goal.

The mistake I made is that when virtually combining these (I hadn't read that book at the time) was that there was no discussion between players and GM about the term of the goals. For example, the paladin wanted to deal with "The biggest threat to the Imperium", and steered the party on a beeline right for it. But it was never intended as a low-level threat, and players getting there and trying to move forward from a position of strength when they were really in quite the position of weakness wasn't satisfying, even if it was realistic. It could have turned into spending a big chunk of the campaign with intrigue and information gathering and getting allies if the whole group was into it, but it would have been more fun with better expectations set early with the players. It may have also caused some of the more "go with the flow" players to speak up, instead of the proactive player who was playing the paladin being such the steering force.
 

There's definitely different idk, "levels" of "player driven" (in scare quotes because they may have different definitions to different people).

Eg: the classic sandbox is player driven in that the players plunk down somewhere, can get rumors or search around or whatever and uncover Things to Do and then make choices about Doing Them, and then how they Tackle the Things etc etc. Just lots of space for players to make choices and face the consequences from macro to micro.

Then you've got things where you're doing more collaborative building of the direction of the game itself. Here it's player driven in that you all coalesce around what you want to play, with different levels of joint-world building. BITD is a good example of this probably - once you commit to the premise of playing the game, the players drive a lot of the direction of play and all teh GM has to do is a) suggest opportunities when the players ask and b) push back via the provided levers in the game itself.

Kinda side to above, you've got the sort of "player driven within an overarching GM fronted premise" where the GM isn't planning any direct story beats and the like, and the players help shape the going in position via their character creations and perhaps some world stuff, but the GM is then fronting situations and asking how the players deal with it. This latter is probably the easiest for a lot of more conventional tables to get into? It's how I'm running my Daggerheart games for instance; very much the "prep situations not plots" sort of thing where I use the game to pose the question of "hey, you said during creation your character care about X, here's Y - what do you do about it?" And then we play to find out the ramifications of their choices and actions which build and lead into a new situation (perhaps escalated, perhaps resolved).

I do think that for the latter above, giving options of the "next step" from a menu you might even build with the players in a meta channel conversation can be helpful. Like a Sandbox Job Board, but for potential situations. When we wrapped the first arc of play in my Thursday bi-weekly in person game, I was like "hey guys gals and non-binary pals, you've gotten a bunch of potential leads over the course of this of Badness happening. What would you as players and you as characters be most interested in pursuing next? And give your answer knowing that I'm making clocks/countdowns of how everything is going to evolve as you tackle one to show that the world isn't static."

And they picked a city and we hammered out why they're heading there (and when we got a couple new players we worked on dovetailing them in via familial and similar relationships so it all made SenseTM), and they've been resolving that Situation over the last 6 sessions while I tick down the countdowns elsewhere as days go by.
 


I have always found that most players don't want the "Player Driven Sandbox", they want the "Tyrant DM Railroad". Such players just want to relax, and be swept along in an adventure.

I do love player driven adventures, but they are a rare thing. It is almost always with experienced players that are very dedicated to the game play to far extremes. They are not just casual players that show up for a couple hours to hang out.

Even with some player drive, I still crank it up to 11. I don't DM any other way.

The best player driven adventures...or even campaigns are near impossible. Too often players pick far to easy goals and then automatically 'win' in the first hour of game play or so......and that makes it hard to go on.
 



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