When Players don't respect the DM's rules - Help!

[Chimera]

Indeed you are going to drop it.

I'm sorry you can't get past this, but you need to. I am NOT going to discuss this further. Discuss on ENWORLD all you like, but I don't answer to you. It's my gaming group as much as yours, and if you continue to push me, one of us will leave the group.

Please drop this for my sake, and the sake of the group. I do not want to discuss this, and do not need to justify my dislike of Scar, or the simple desire to play a new character.

[problem player]

After some posts of yours several months ago, I thought I might know you. But you're obviously not that person. HOWEVER, this person may well be someone that I knew and ran afoul of in the past. After playing with the group I was in for only a couple of sessions, he told the GM that he refused to play with one of the original players (a "him or me" declaration.). Not cool when you're the new guy. The he refused to play with another new player before ever meeting him. Then when I argued with him about a couple of things, he gave the GM a third "him or me" ultimatum in regards to me. END OF GROUP.

OTOH, the whole "Deck of Many Things" reference makes it possible that it may be the GM of that group. (In which case I'd have to note that the Deck came in the second or third session and NO ONE was happy about it.)

In either case, good luck man. I think it's time to cut this guy loose and let the chips fall where they may.

The alternative is to be his (female dog reference). He'll never stop pushing you.

 

[cmanos]

if you don't have a lot of experience running games, running with less rules is better. The initial campaign I started to run, some people only had the players handbook and some people had every single book. The people with the player's handbook only really started to resent the players with all the books. "How come he can use that and I can't?"

After that campaign tanked, several of the players asked that if I should run a new game that the useable books be clearly stated at the start, and be accessible by all. Since some only had the Player's Handbook. It was Player's Handbook to start.

I ran a one shot adventure...yeah...ok..it took 5 months to finish...in Eberron. The only things I allowed were PHB and everything Eberron. I had typed up all the classes, races, feats, prestige classes and equipment from all the Eberron books I had and printed out neat little booklets for the players.

No problems. People asked several times if I was using the COmplete series or the Races series, but they never really pushed.

As I see it you can either open up your acceptable sources a bit, which, if you are a new DM, be VERY careful with this. If the player is any kind of friend, he'll accept this. Or You tell the player that your rules are your rules and he needs to play by them. If he doesn't want to, that's his problem. Leave him at his house and find somewhere else to play.

You are the DM. You make the rules. You tell people what they can use and what they can't use. Your player's accept that or they don't plauy with you. Thats my POV.

 

[merelycompetent]

... Indeed you are going to drop it.... I gave you and the group advance notice via email that Scar was gone, and that I was bringing in a new kobold character... I am NOT going to discuss this further... It's my gaming group as much as yours, and if you continue to push me, one of us will leave the group.... Pease drop this for my sake, and the sake of the group. I do not want to discuss this, and do not need to justify my dislike of Scar, or the simple desire to play a new character.

So, the player has cut off all communication about the problem, demanded that you do things his way no matter what, delivered an ultimatum, and threatened to force you out of the gaming group (also known as social blackmail) -- thus eliminating any opportunity to find another solution, compromise, or otherwise work this out.

Recommended solution: 1) Boot him. 2) Find a new place to game.

Even if you lose other members of your gaming group over it, no game is worth putting up with this nauseating bovine waste.

P.S. Your initial post about this being a problem player was correct. I would even go so far as to say this player is toxic to you personally, your game, and your fellow gamers. Also, my condolences on the trashed campaign.

I sincerely hope that your next campaign is a far more pleasant experience.

 

[Sarellion]

He mentions the discussion on ENWorld. Could it be that he took offense that you took it outside the gaming group?

 

[Mishihari Lord]

Update: It seems that things have come to a head. I've been trying to talk via email to the problem player to figure out a workable resolution, and he'd rather "just drop it."

Then, when I started asking why he became so insistent about discarding his original character, he wrote the following to the entire group:


[Elephant],

Indeed you are going to drop it. All you need to know is that I was not happy playing him. My enjoyment is as important as your overarching master storyline. I don't have to feel guilty about not playing a generic AC 15 kobold. I gave you and the group advance notice via email that Scar was gone, and that I was bringing in a new kobold character. No....big......deal.

I'm sorry you can't get past this, but you need to. I am NOT going to discuss this further. Discuss on ENWORLD all you like, but I don't answer to you. It's my gaming group as much as yours, and if you continue to push me, one of us will leave the group.

Please drop this for my sake, and the sake of the group. I do not want to discuss this, and do not need to justify my dislike of Scar, or the simple desire to play a new character.

[problem player]

Life's too short to put up with this kind of BS in what's supposed to be a fun hobby. Take his ultimatum to your group. Hopefully you can boot him with the group's consent. If not then you're better off finding another group to play with.

 

[Belen]

Update: It seems that things have come to a head. I've been trying to talk via email to the problem player to figure out a workable resolution, and he'd rather "just drop it."

Then, when I started asking why he became so insistent about discarding his original character, he wrote the following to the entire group:


[Elephant],

Indeed you are going to drop it. All you need to know is that I was not happy playing him. My enjoyment is as important as your overarching master storyline. I don't have to feel guilty about not playing a generic AC 15 kobold. I gave you and the group advance notice via email that Scar was gone, and that I was bringing in a new kobold character. No....big......deal.

I'm sorry you can't get past this, but you need to. I am NOT going to discuss this further. Discuss on ENWORLD all you like, but I don't answer to you. It's my gaming group as much as yours, and if you continue to push me, one of us will leave the group.

Please drop this for my sake, and the sake of the group. I do not want to discuss this, and do not need to justify my dislike of Scar, or the simple desire to play a new character.

[problem player]

Is his new character within the bounds of the initial rules that you set? If so, then he has a right to not have to play a character that he does not enjoy. We have all created characters that we thought we cool, then played them a few times and realized that it did not mesh with the group, game etc.

 

[jasper]

My group is opposite of Shadow’s group. The Dm sets the conditions. Ex. me core only, others varies. But one rule we stand by is new dms (what ever the game system) use core only. This is to help them get their feet faster.
No here we have guy who is trying to learn to be good dm and wants the aid of training wheels (core only 2 pcs etc) and this guy is actively kicking at training wheels.

Elephant my suggestion is only allow things from books you own. But stick with core only until you get more experience.

I had similar problem with ex friend. Great player when I was playing a pc but the moment I started dming 90% of my problems came from him. I booted him from my game. Later he booted himself from my house.

 

[Shadowslayer]

Elephant, I'm sorry it came to this. Someone else said it first, but life's too short for this kind of guff. (I'd been giving the guy benefit of the doubt...but its gatting harder to do)

I'm sorry you're caught up in it.

My only other recommendation is a bit of a cooling off period. Take a week or a couple weeks off. When everyone's mad is not the best time to make decisions.

 

[Elephant]

Life's too short to put up with this kind of BS in what's supposed to be a fun hobby. Take his ultimatum to your group. Hopefully you can boot him with the group's consent. If not then you're better off finding another group to play with.

Oh, he already did. He replied to one of my emails - the one where I had the most frustrated tone, naturally - to the entire group with the message I quoted above. I didn't even notice the extra "To:" headers until after I'd copied the letter here.

After some posts of yours several months ago, I thought I might know you. But you're obviously not that person. HOWEVER, this person may well be someone that I knew and ran afoul of in the past. After playing with the group I was in for only a couple of sessions, he told the GM that he refused to play with one of the original players (a "him or me" declaration.). Not cool when you're the new guy. The he refused to play with another new player before ever meeting him. Then when I argued with him about a couple of things, he gave the GM a third "him or me" ultimatum in regards to me. END OF GROUP.

OTOH, the whole "Deck of Many Things" reference makes it possible that it may be the GM of that group. (In which case I'd have to note that the Deck came in the second or third session and NO ONE was happy about it.)

In either case, good luck man. I think it's time to cut this guy loose and let the chips fall where they may.

The alternative is to be his (female dog reference). He'll never stop pushing you.

The Deck of Many Things was something he brought in to the "Crypt of the Devil Lich" module he was running. It's organized into three stages, and just before we entered the third stage, he added a little extra - a magical device that would conjure magic items in exchange for permanent ability drain. One of my PCs (six pregens, four players at the time) rolled the DOMT as the item that was created. Then, one of my PCs was banished to the Abyss (soul trapped elsewhere card), and the other reversed alignment before gaining a couple of Wishes. I ended up playing it as my PC pretending to go along with the others, then betraying them after the BBEG escaped the final battle (we didn't manage to win). Over a dozen tense rounds later, my character finally died to a couple of Fireballs after being cornered by a Blade Barrier. It was quite the session.

 

[Elephant]

Is his new character within the bounds of the initial rules that you set? If so, then he has a right to not have to play a character that he does not enjoy. We have all created characters that we thought we cool, then played them a few times and realized that it did not mesh with the group, game etc.

His new character is fine, with the possible exception (so far it seems okay, but I've Reserved the Right to Remove It) of one ability from Races of the Dragon. If he'd sent a copy of his character sheet ahead of time, I would have okayed it as a backup PC. If he'd explained why he didn't like his original PC anymore, I would have figured out a way to kill off the old PC and get the new one to join.

Instead, the situation devolved in a very ugly way, and I rather feel like I've been trampled.