When "Roleplaying" rears its ugly head...

[Desdichado]

Where did Marx say that? I know it's not in the manifesto and I don't recall running across it in Das Kapital -- which is odd because I was a bigger Star Trek fan when I read that than I am now. Any chance you are confusing this with "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

Don't remember. It's been six or seven years since my college Anthropology and Economics days. But it's entirely possible that you're correct.

Although in my anthropology class, we talked about a lot of Marxist philosophies, quotes, and whatnot that were not specifically economic in nature.

 

[robberbaron]

Ask the dead PC's player if there is a particularly "cool" race he would like to be (or suggest one), then bring him back as one.

For Clapton's sake, don't risk the game because you and a player disagree.
You will not see eye to eye with everybody all the time. At that moment you either,
a) compromise,
b) give in or
c) impose your will.

b) and c) are steps down a road you do not want to go.

 

[Zoatebix]

I'm going to be really nitpicky and slightly off topic and mention that - somewhat contrary to the description above - the use of "speak with dead" can only reveal information the corpse knew in life - both characters may have wanted to come back before, but you have no idea what the current desires of the two souls are...

So you could still save yourself some trouble if you devise a way for the PCs to find out that the NPC really doesn't want to come back. Or they could waste the scroll because the resurrection fails. That'd be loads of fun.

 

[D+1]

I argued that I won't spoil the player's enjoyment for the sake of an NPC. He argued that it would be the true roleplaying way to handle it. My reply was to hell with that! I won't allow roleplaying to ruin a player's enjoyment. His arguement now is that this is ruining his enjoyment of the game. And that we (the rest of the group) are a bunch of metagamers who don't have a clue about the true roleplaying way.

The True Roleplaying Way can kiss my unwashed backside. It has no place in D&D and I've seen it cause as many problems in game - just like this one - as any alignment debacle or munchkin/powergaming ABSENCE of roleplaying. If the player is that keen on it he should be studying Method Acting and working on Broadway or in Hollywood, not PLAYING at the dining room table. D&D is a GAME, not a test of one's theatrical purity and commitment.

Find out how deep his commitment is, because it actually sounds pretty shallow. If his CHARACTER feels so deeply on the subject why is the PLAYER crying "metagaming" and his own character not reflexively volunteering to pay for or find another resurrection and thus ensuring what the player wants so desperately anyway? How is this player the Righteous Judge of the motivations of other players if not their characters? How is this player able to argue that The Trule Roleplaying Way honestly takes precedence over OTHER PLAYERS enjoyment of the game? You can bet that if it were HIS character lying on a cold slab and everyone else at the table were telling him, "We don't give a flying monkey about what you want. We like the NPC better, and besides he's been around longer than your character - therefore YOU JUST DON"T RATE OUR COMPASSION," that he'd be singing a very different tune.

This player is just looking to demonstrate his superiority as a roleplayer by trying to prove that everyone else isn't as STUPIDLY over-dedicated to it as he is.

 

[Quasqueton]

both PC and NPC have been spoken to with Speak with Dead, and both wish to return to the land of the living.
[...]
the DM who doesn't give a rats backside about the NPC.

Uhm... if you don't give a rats backside about the NPC, then why the heck did you decide he wanted to come back? Do you just enjoy goading this troublesome player of yours?

Lovely. The NPC, who last I checked you portray, wishes to return to the land of the living, thus destroying the one chance you had to escape from this fiasco of your own creation.

I'd like to point this out again. These are very good and relevant observations.

Why did you have the NPC answer that he wanted to come back? Were you perhaps roleplaying the NPC's in-character thoughts/wishes? If the NPC had said no to coming back, this whole situation would not have come up.

Quasqueton

 

[MonsterMash]

Where did Marx say that? I know it's not in the manifesto and I don't recall running across it in Das Kapital -- which is odd because I was a bigger Star Trek fan when I read that than I am now. Any chance you are confusing this with "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

According to Wikiquote its from The Criticism of the Gotha Program 1875
Not near a decent library to check with another source.

 

[fusangite]

I'm going to be really nitpicky and slightly off topic and mention that - somewhat contrary to the description above - the use of "speak with dead" can only reveal information the corpse knew in life

Exactly. Speak with Dead converses with the body not the soul.

 

[MerakSpielman]

Players should not take it personally when another player's character does something. Likewise, nobody's character should react to another person's character because of anything going on between the players.

I expect my players to keep player knowledge and PC knowledge separate.

I approve of the role-playing in this instance.

I disapprove of the other player taking it personally. He should just roll up a new character (or play the NPC) and laught about it and move on.

Just a game folks.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

"You look trustworthy! Join us on our quest!"

I think you meant, "You seem a trustworthy fellow. Care to join us on our quest?"

I love that movie ...

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

-snip-

Have you read the entire thread, or are you just commenting on the original post? Because I can't imagine how you could come to this conclusion if it's the former.

The other player does not (necessarily) want so desperately to have his character raised. He hasn't said a thing about it.

If he's a dedicated roleplayer, he will probably want the NPC to take precedence, since that seems to be the proper in-character decision. He might also be interested in the chance to roleplay a character suddenly finding himself in a new body.

If he's a powergamer, he'll probably be rubbing his hands in glee at the chance to be reincarnated as something cool and unusual - and possibly getting a free level adjustment. If he was human before, he'll almost certainly benefit from the experience mechanically, since he keeps his feat and gains new racial traits.

If he's a beer-and-pretzels fellow who just wants to hang out and have a good time, he probably couldn't care less either way.

D&D is indeed a game.

So is Uno. In Uno, if I draw a Draw 4, I'll play it with unrestrained glee on someone who just declared Uno-Wild and thinks they're about to go out. Will that destroy that person's enjoyment?

So is Magic the Gathering. In Magic, if I have a mountain and four swamps in play, four dark rituals and a fireball in hand, and my opponent has 8 life, should I not cast the fireball because losing would hurt his feelings?

The only people who could be seriously hurt by a decision about rezzing the NPC are:
1. The Real Roleplayer, who sounds like a jerk as described herein but may not be, since we don't have an unbiased view of him. He'll be angry if his character's bud, the NPC, isn't brought back. I have some sympathy for this guy, if only because he's in essence been 'talked about behind his back,' but he doesn't sound like someone I'd game with.
2. The GM, who is offended by the Real Roleplayer's style. I can't say he's given any reason to be sympathetic toward him. He created what he considers a mess and now wants to muck about with his players' characters to get out of it. I can guarantee I'd walk out of his game and never look back, but he'd probably be a perfectly acceptable player. Unless his PC died, in which case he'd never speak to me again.
3. The player who lost a PC. He's not party to the proceedings here one way or the other. As it stands, I feel for the guy because he seems to be stuck in a dysfunctional gaming group, but if he would actually object to rezzing the NPC, he would be doing so out of pure petulance and would lose all sympathy from me.