When someone else ruins your enjoyment of a something

[Bullgrit]

Ever had your enjoyment or support of something ruined by other people in that group? Ruined enough that you come to dislike participating in that something anymore?

Maybe you enjoy reading and discussing books in groups, but after a while you get really tired of so many people insisting every book has deeper meanings and symbolisms that you just can’t enjoy discussions with *anyone* anymore? Or maybe you don’t even enjoy reading books at all because your mind starts searching for deeper meaning, and thereby ruins the fun of the read?

Maybe you enjoy philosophical questions and discussions, but after enduring the constant arguments between theists and atheists that come up, even thinking about the topic now just leaves you annoyed. Or every time you think of a new philosophical question, you immediately hear an inane theological argument in your head.

Maybe you enjoy a sport, but after so many scandals with corrupt officials or thug players, you can’t stand even watching it anymore. Like you can’t squash the feeling that you are supporting criminals raking in tons of money.

Maybe you enjoy playing a video game, but after experiencing the player base online, you can’t find pleasure in even the single player mode anymore because you feel like you are a part of a really crappy community.

This has happened to me with classic D&D. I have a huge library of classic D&D (late 1970s to late 1980s) materials, from rule books and modules to magazines and miniatures. I used to thoroughly enjoy looking and reading through all the stuff just as much as playing the game. I was a big, big fan of classic D&D *style*. I even ran and played my modern versions of the game in ways (the style) I had learned from the classic days. But after years of argument and edition wars online, I now find reading the old material actually much less fun. I won’t go into the specifics, because I don’t want to re-argue those points. But when I read the old stuff, what I see always brings up memories of those old online arguments, and it frustrates me. I would never have thought that my enjoyment of some pastime could be ruined by other people that aren’t even around when I’m partaking in that pastime, but this has happened. Over the past several months, I have actually found myself putting a book back on my shelf after only a few minutes of reading because it drudges up some aggravating memory of some argument about the book specifically or about the classic game in general.

Have you experienced something like this? Have you ever had a favored hobby or interest ruined by others within that hobby/interest?

Bullgrit

 

[Umbran]

Have you experienced something like this? Have you ever had a favored hobby or interest ruined by others within that hobby/interest?

Yes. I will have to do a little dance here to avoid the politics rules...

As a kid, I was part of a youth organization (that shall remain nameless). My experiences were overall highly positive, and the growth I experienced by participating... I don't think I could have gotten anywhere else. However, as time went on I discovered more and more places where the organization and I were on opposite sides of certain cultural and moral debates. While my local group was generally not too bad on these issues, I found several of the national organization's positions... reprehensible. For a while afterwards, I was a bit ashamed of my association with them, to be honest. I found I could no longer support the organization, or even recommend them to others who had children, because I had no guarantees that any other local group would be like mine.

 

[Ryujin]

Yup, I think that damned near everyone must run into that sort of thing, these days. For me it's motorcycles. I've ridden since 1984, was involved in the creation of a rather large local riding group (a little over 200 members), and have been active in online rider communities since the early '90s (a little posting on rec.motorcycles before that, in the days before the web, but that doesn't really count). This year I still haven't gotten my bike on the road yet and a lot of it has to do with the selfishness of other riders making me not want to be associated with them, by the general public.

It's easy to make the intellectual leap that what others do shouldn't ruin a thing for you. It's a whole lot harder to make the same leap emotionally.

 

[Dog Moon]

EnWorld. Because of you!

No, I'm just joking.

Partly.

I used to love EnWorld, I felt like I was practically addicted to the site. I was posting everywhere, I had fun putting my homebrewed creations on the site and I spent so much time posting in the Off-topic forum, specifically the Hivemind threads. But then there was just an incident that sort of killed it for me. I think the 3e-4e division was around that time as well, which hurt a little, but it was that big incident that killed the site for me. I still come here, obviously, but instead of scouring the site for everything of interest I just come here, browse for a few minutes to see if there is anything interesting to respond to and then leave. I was getting literally over like 20-30 posts per day... but I don't even get that per MONTH now.

It always sucks when someone or something ruins a thing for you. It doesn't matter how awesome that thing is, it just is no longer quite the same for you.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

If I'm thinking of the same group Umbran is...I'm not quite to that same endpoint, but I'm not far away from it, either.

For me, it was playing the cello. I played from 1977-1996, and got VERY good at it. But the last teacher I had- circa 1985 or so- while incredibly talented and possessed of an astounding instrument, made the instrument into SUCH a chore that I lost whatever love I had of it. From the time I was no longer under his tutelage, @1987 or so, through 1996, my practice time steadily diminished to the point that the cello had become a conversation piece, not an instrument.

I toted it around until 2014, when I gave it to our church's music director, who really wanted to learn it. I'm happy for him, and that it found a good home: he's a degreed professional musician with several instruments to his credit, a Christian rock artist, and among the composers who help revamp the Catholic Church's music ministry the past decade or so. He even married another musician of similar talents...

So it will be cared for and- hopefully- well-used.

 

[Deset Gled]

Star Wars.

I used to love Star Wars. I watched my VHS tapes of the movies countless times. I owned about a dozen of the WEG sourcebooks before I ever got a gaming group together, just to soak up the information that flushed out the expanded universe. I collected action figures and artwork. I read the novels and played the computer games.

But somewhere along the line, everything just started falling apart. The novels took a huge downturn in quality (i.e. Kevin J. Anderson). The computer games came out at rapid speed and mediocre quality. The merchandizing become an omnipresent behemoth. It was impossible to ever collect a complete set of anything because no sets ever ended. And every re-release was different and retconned.

I was already starting to burn out when Phantom Menace was released. I saw PM in the theater three times in the first week it was out. By the time RotS came out, I just managed to catch it the last weekend it was still on the big screen.

I'm currently at a point where I have my own canon; I have decided what parts of the EU I consider "real" and what parts I reject. I have zero level of excitement for the new movies, and no expectations for them whatsoever.

 

[Umbran]

If I'm thinking of the same group Umbran is...I'm not quite to that same endpoint, but I'm not far away from it, either.

They've been moving in a better direction recently, at least.

 

[Janx]

From the examples, it sounds like there are different drivers for the loss of enjoyment that can come into play:
excessive arguing/debate (D&D for bullgrit)
associated corruption/ethics (organization running a hobby for Umbran)
poor coaching (music teacher for Danny)
excessive commericalization (starwars for Deset Gled)

To me, one of the saddest examples is the Cello. How can a teacher ruin passion for learning. We're not talking weed out science classes to only get the smart kids at the end. This is one on one coaching. That teacher failed a student in a more direct and personal way than the other examples, which were ruined by faceless groups of people.

 

[Bullgrit]

EnWorld. Because of you!

No, I'm just joking.

Partly.

I hope the joke was "Because of you!"

I don't remember being part of any 3rd-4th edition trouble. I think I only ever made one post about 4th edition, ever. (I didn't play it, so had nothing to say about it beyond that one post.)



Bullgrit

 

[Dog Moon]

I hope the joke was "Because of you!"

I don't remember being part of any 3rd-4th edition trouble. I think I only ever made one post about 4th edition, ever. (I didn't play it, so had nothing to say about it beyond that one post.)



Bullgrit

Oh, I'm sorry, I guess I totally could have been a little more explicit. You had nothing whatsoever to do with the issue. That was a different poster who is no longer allowed on the boards. He... did something that angered a lot of people, myself included. EnWorld was just never the same for me after the stunt he pulled.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I think I know of whom you speak, and yes, that was very ugly.

 

[Wild Gazebo]

While I've inadvertently conditioned myself out of hobbies and pastimes...I must say I have also reconditioned my self back into a couple. Sometimes 'time' can be a great healer.

The more profound disappointments, for me, have sprung from venturing past the beginner stage of pastimes into more proficient...or even expert areas of knowledge or competence. Let me be clear: I'm not trying to sound aloof or saying I'm too cool for school (as should be evident from that expression); but, there have been a couple of times when I have eliminated the 'adventure' or 'mystery' out of a situation simply through education. That gap between loving the romance of something and expunging the romance through clear understanding...but simply lacking the motivation to achieve mastery. I guess you could equate it as a sort of forced aging similar to how as a child you loved the gripping episodes of (whatever favorite cartoon/movie ect) but upon growing older you see nothing but formulaic dialogue and plot crippled with poor acting and bad production.

 

[horacethegrey]

For me, it was playing the cello. I played from 1977-1996, and got VERY good at it. But the last teacher I had- circa 1985 or so- while incredibly talented and possessed of an astounding instrument, made the instrument into SUCH a chore that I lost whatever love I had of it. From the time I was no longer under his tutelage, @1987 or so, through 1996, my practice time steadily diminished to the point that the cello had become a conversation piece, not an instrument.

Forgive me for saying so, but that sounds almost like the plot of Whiplash.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Whiplash?

 

[Particle_Man]

Dog Moon, since the poster who ruined things for you is no longer a poster here, do you think that in time you will regain your former passion for this place?

 

[KirayaTiDrekan]

Comic Books - I couldn't afford to buy them as a kid, but I'd read them in the store every chance I got. Fantastic Four and Spider-Man were my main titles. But, as I got older and realized the characters never aged and the universes just got rebooted once a decade or so to keep recycling the characters and stories, I burned out on them pretty quickly.

Official company forums - I used to be very involved in the WotC community but, after working there (telecommuting) for a few years, I can't go back. Every time I do, I'm reminded of the unpleasantness of certain incidents, particularly the rather vicious arguments during the D&D Next playtest. I've dabbled in other company forums and found that they have the same general issues - folks way too invested in a single product and/or viewpoint. So, I spend my time here, instead.

 

[horacethegrey]

Whiplash?

Sorry. Didn't think you wouldn't be familiar with what I was talking about. Whiplash is a 2014 movie about a drumming prodigy played by Miles Teller who is pushed to be his best by a relentless (one could argue psychotic) music teacher played by J.K. Simmons (who won an Oscar for Best Supporting Actor for this role). The director of this film, Damien Chazelle, based this film party on his experiences being a jazz drummer and asks whether genius is worth all the pain and abuse that one must endure to achieve it. Here's the trailer below:

[video=youtube;7d_jQycdQGo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d_jQycdQGo[/video]

 

[Dog Moon]

Dog Moon, since the poster who ruined things for you is no longer a poster here, do you think that in time you will regain your former passion for this place?

It has taken me a long time, but I have gotten back into EnWorld somewhat. Regain my former passion? Sadly, I don't think so. It's already been so long that if it was going to happen, it already would have.

Although I do miss posting my own miscellaneous homebrewed monster creations and templates. Maybe I'll try to get into that, though sadly the Paizo people don't seem to focus on Templates as much as WotC did. I know I always enjoyed coming up with some crazy combination when I saw a new template and thought how well that would work with x monster.

Well, at least I have some of my passion back.

 

[GMMichael]

I'm not sure if it was the discussion or just understanding the game itself, but D&D 3 used to be the bee's knees for me. I picked up the Rules Compendium, to help make the game immortal. But after optimization, prestige classes, character "builds," polymorph fixes, grappling rules...I get a little queasy thinking about it. I'd still play a 3e game, but only if the DM showed a very lackadaisical attitude toward the details.
[MENTION=31216]Bullgrit[/MENTION] - I think a digital detox would do you some good. Let me know if you try it.

 

[Bullgrit]

I think a digital detox would do you some good. Let me know if you try it.

What is digital detox?

OK, I just Googled it. Well, I haven't read or posted anything to a gaming forum for many months. The old edition war arguments are a few years past for me, but the bad feelings about D&D nostalgia linger. I don't see how a wide spectrum digital detox would restore my feelings on this very specific subject.

Bullgrit