When The BBEG is a Wuss

the Jester

Legend
Anyone ever use a BBEG who's not a real challenge in combat, but whose mooks are? The thread about challenging fights got me to thinking- this is a good way to break the 'video game' paradigm, especially if- rather than fighting- the villain surrenders at the point at which the pcs have fought their way to him.

"You got me, I yield!"

Anyone have any interesting experiences with this sort of stuff?
 

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I had a lot of fun with this in my last campaign. One of the major villains was an important arms merchant and the son of a powerful duke. He had zero combat ability, but he did have a pet, bonded familiar, an amulet that would allow the knights of his house to teleport to his location if he was threatened, and a few other magical trinkets that gave him access to stoneskin and similar spells.

In essence, he was an 8th level aristocrat/2nd level sorcerer with a ton of defensive magic items, probably on par with what a 14th level character would have. His family was filthy rich, and they took care of him. Personally, he had zero offensive ability, but he had enough money to choke a dragon to death and commanded 4,000 well trained mercenaries, house soldiers, and knights.

The best scene involving him in the campaign had to be when the party finally caught him, completely red handed, involved in some very bad stuff. They were all ready to beat the hell out of him or intimidate some useful imformation from him. While they were sharpening their daggers and making angry noises, he just smiled and told them "Go ahead. I'm really interested to see what my father does to you if you guys try to hurt me."

They didn't lay a hand on him. In the end, they had to let him go. They even formed a tentative alliance with him.
 

I did this by accident once. In a CoC game the players wound up facing down some elder god--those who made their Sanity checks made handy use of their Tommy Guns and I found out that the book gave him a lot of hit points but no armor.

Anyway, I let the dice and rules fall where they may and now the players still don't believe it was a real god.
 


Taneel BrightBlade said:
I'll do something like this in my next campain.
What he said. I need to change things up, as I really only run about 5 types of encounters IMO. 1) Orcs Attaxxors J00. 2) Wait, I don't really want to fight! (almost always seems to end up in a fight though, just the other day they had the chance to ally with a clan of kobolds against the goblins, then started threatening their leaders). 3) Single well armed and talented NPC of 1 level higher or lower who fights as cunningly as I can get him. 4) Supermonster. Run if your smart, or get ready for some deaths, cause this boy is not going to be stopped. Sometimes just a scary critter that is somehow avoided. 5) Not really an encounter... but they always think it was. Sometimes used as a story telling device (I once gave them the round by round descriptions of a mated pair of blue dragons fighting against a copper in a desert, I had rolled the dice the night before and everything was meant to be accurate. The whole time there were looks on their faces of "when is it coming for US!" but the dragons killed each other and then tore the body apart.)
 

mearls said:
The best scene involving him in the campaign had to be when the party finally caught him, completely red handed, involved in some very bad stuff. They were all ready to beat the hell out of him or intimidate some useful imformation from him. While they were sharpening their daggers and making angry noises, he just smiled and told them "Go ahead. I'm really interested to see what my father does to you if you guys try to hurt me."

Famous last words.

Sounds fairly lame, as you describe it. My first order of business would be to pull every one of those magic items off of him. They're the party's now. Next thing is to find out if this punk's family will take any responsibility for his actions. If not, which sounds like the case, see if whoever the duke answers to cares about this guy commiting a long list of crimes in the kingdom. Royalty has its privileges, but it sounds like some of this "really nasty stuf" could constitute a crime against the crown. Proof isn't as big of an issue in a world with magic, after all. Now, if the party's not good-aligned, then they at least have some leverage, instead of the NPC holding all the cards.

If the party is good aligned, they turn him. And if daddy's fully aware of his transgressions and continues to protect him, then he's just another bad guy to take care of.

And if the party ultimately has nobody in authority to appeal to--i.e. even the king's a sh*theel--then they'll wind up heroic outlaws after they gack the brat. And if the DM arbitrarily deems that they're hunted down and put to death, well, so much for that no-win scenario campaign.
 
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The Jester is right that there are more kinds of 'power' for a BBEG than merely PC combat-prowess. And Felon is right that it can be hard to get PCs to respect that power when the BBEG has seriously ticked them off a few times!

Great wealth, strong social position or potent social connections are also sources of power - and ones that the PCs find hard to match and defeat.

Yes, I have used this, in a story involving a nobleman struggling to take over a town, who was also involved in his own little demon cult to extend his life, and who had dealings with the local Thieves' Guild, for whom he did favours. He, himself, was a low level Aristocrat, who ahd gained a couple of Expert levels as part of his cult. But the PCs had a devil of a time getting at him, even after they uncovered a probable connection to an assassination attempt on a more senior noble. He was careful enough to use cut-outs, and the Thieves were protecting a valuable asset in him. In the end, they accepted collecting a lot of circumstantial evidence against the man, and presenting it well to most powerful local nobles. They were quite satisfied when the nobles took matters into their own hands, and the annoying BBEG died when his mansion 'accidentally burned down in the night'!

Less satisfying than killing him themselves? In the end, it was a bit, but they did find it satisfying to be able to tell each other 'we were instrumental in eliminating a demon-worshipping and corrupt pervert'.

So yes, such BBEGs can be used - but you need to consider how power and influence work, and the consequences if the PCs decide to ignore it all anyway.
 


I have the potential of doing something like this in the near future. I used the adventure "The Magic Dump" and turned Greeley Prime into a scheming baron with lots of wealth and political clout. The party suspects he was behind a whole bunch of assassinations, but found no concrete proof. One of Greeley's underlings was "conveniently" exposed as the real agent behind those plots, but the party still has doubts. However, since Greeley is well-connected, having donated heavily to the local churches, and he has a sizeable and powerful force of private guards, he is essentially untouchable.

The party's been off doing other things, but it's possible they could have another run-in with Greeley or his guards. Though I don't really have any stats for him yet, I suspect he's just an Aristocrat with little in the way of combat training, and the source of his strength lies in those he hires to protect himself. With lots of wealth, he can afford decent guards and spellcasters, and equip them well, and I'm sure his residence would be protected with lots of expensive traps as well. His past donations to the churches mean that they will likely spring to his aid as well, sending priests and paladins to help protect him. If the party can weave their way past all of that, he's a strong candidate for that "wimpy" BBEG title.
 

Felon said:
Next thing is to find out if this punk's family will take any responsibility for his actions. If not, which sounds like the case, see if whoever the duke answers to cares about this guy commiting a long list of crimes in the kingdom.

Which immediately sets the party into a days to weeks long prisoner/hostage situation while this information is gathered. And, if Daddy is likely to come to the rescue, it alerts him to the problem and gives him time to put his plan in action. One does not sit on the sons of nobles for long periods of time without fear of reprisal.

And frequently, even if they are nice folk, Kings will take the words of their nobles over the words of ragtag vigilantes. :)

It isn't a no-win scenario. It is a tough choices scenario.
 

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