When to add Sorcererous power bonus damage?

[Nifft]

Critical hits have a 'damage roll' component, but is automatically maximised, so that Spell Source damage bonuses can be added in.

Actually, they don't:

Maximum Damage: Rather than roll damage, determine the maximum damage you can roll with your attack. This is your critical damage. (Attacks that don’t deal damage still don’t deal damage on a critical hit.)

Extra Damage: Magic weapons and implements, as well as high crit weapons, can increase the damage you deal when you score a critical hit. If this extra damage is a die roll, it’s not automatically maximum damage; you add the result of the roll.

Critical Hits explicitly tell you not to roll for damage, unless you have some extra damage (from a high-crit weapon, a magic implement, or the like).

Powers that don't deal damage can't get this extra damage, because the rules explicitly say they can't -- in the quote above, and here:

Many powers and other effects grant the ability to deal extra damage. Extra damage is always in addition to other damage. This means an attack that deals no damage can’t deal extra damage.

... but nothing prohibits extra crit damage (rolls) from being added to flat-damage powers which crit.

Cheers, -- N

 

[DracoSuave]

Actually, they don't: Critical Hits explicitly tell you not to roll for damage, unless you have some extra damage (from a high-crit weapon, a magic implement, or the like).

So, you're saying that a Sorcerer -doesn't- add his Strength bonus if he crits with say... Acid Orb?

Powers that don't deal damage can't get this extra damage, because the rules explicitly say they can't -- in the quote above, and here: ... but nothing prohibits extra crit damage (rolls) from being added to flat-damage powers which crit.

Um, yeah. No one's arguing this point at all. We know you can add critical hit bonus damage onto a critical hit with a non-rolled power that has a flat damage.

That's not the question.

The question is can you then add in Spell Source bonus damage from Sorcerer Class Features.

Also: Non damaging and ongoing damage critical hit bonuses from weapons do apply to non-damaging critical hits.

[/quote]Cheers, -- N[/QUOTE]

 

[Nifft]

So, you're saying that a Sorcerer -doesn't- add his Strength bonus if he crits with say... Acid Orb?

If you'd understood the second part, you'd know that's not what I'm saying.

Eh, whatever. The difference between what you posted and what the rules say is tiny in practice.

Cheers, -- N

 

[DracoSuave]

If you'd understood the second part, you'd know that's not what I'm saying.

Eh, whatever. The difference between what you posted and what the rules say is tiny in practice.

Cheers, -- N

No, I got that. It just didn't cover the question at hand, which was:

If you have a non-variable damage power (no damage roll), and you crit (oh wait, now there is a damage roll?), do you then get to add your ____ Soul damage bonus.

 

[Nifft]

If you have a non-variable damage power (no damage roll), and you crit (oh wait, now there is a damage roll?), do you then get to add your ____ Soul damage bonus.

Do you get to add damage roll bonuses when you roll damage? Yes.

Cheers, -- N

 

[KKDragonLord]

I see it now, i agree.
Thinking about it now, i think its a good thing, crits are supposed to be special and not many builds get to "exploit" this with crits every round or something like that. At least for this character i am making it will be just a nice bonus and not a "game-breaking cheese"

But i wouldn't be shocked if they added a ruling later on saying that Extra damage dice are different than "normal" damage dice and don't follow the same rules.

 

[Nifft]

But i wouldn't be shocked if they added a ruling later on saying that Extra damage dice are different than "normal" damage dice and don't follow the same rules.

They need to add something saying that:
- The base crit damage includes every bonus that would normally accrue to the non-crit damage.
- The extra dice added on to a crit do (or don't) always apply to flat-damage powers.
- The extra dice added on to a crit don't (or do) get bonuses that accrue to any other damage roll.

Cheers, -- N

 

[DracoSuave]

They need to add something saying that:
- The base crit damage includes every bonus that would normally accrue to the non-crit damage.
- The extra dice added on to a crit do (or don't) always apply to flat-damage powers.
- The extra dice added on to a crit don't (or do) get bonuses that accrue to any other damage roll.

Cheers, -- N

On this I do agree, this -is- something that needs to be clarified as the rules do not exactly dictate this.