When was the sword put out of use?

[Vaxalon]

Trust Gez to bring this discussion around to things that really matter!

 

[daTim]

Ok, here is my personal experience with firearms and military training... I generally dislike these personal accounts, because you dont know me, and there is no way to know if it is true... anyway

In my training I was never taught how to use a knife. The only reason we were taught to use a bayonette was for what is called "Agression training". They give you a bayonetted M1 and tell you run up to the dummy, scream and stab it. The only purpose of the excercise was to make sure you would be able to kill a person when it came down to it, not to train with a bladed weapon. At first it feels weird since you have never stabbed someone, you keep trying to stop yourself short, but after awhile you dont think twice about shooting man targets, or stabbing them.

If I had ever tried to run in swinging my gun in an excercise, I think my Top would have kicked my butt. That is defeating the entire advantage of the US military. We have powerful long range guns, grenades to clear out rooms or trenches, and powerful support vehicles. Even if I ran out of ammo and people were charging me, I would either pull out my sidearm (I can pull a trigger much faster than swinging any weapon) or retreat. What is the point of giving up my advantage in long range combat?

I came to the conclusion after awhile that they dont teach you how to effetivly use a knife is because they dont want you to use one. Just like how officers in command usually dont carry rifles (only a pistol). They dont want them to concentrate on shooting people, they want them to give orders. The pistol gives them some self protection, but only as a last resort.

 

[Darklone]

I heard some reports about the Falkland crisis where the ammunition was gone after a few hours and the battles lasted two days... so ask the gurkhas what they did in the meantime.

 

[Hand of Evil]

So, the answer to when was the sword put out of use is when you stopped getting close enough to your foe to use it.

 

[Agback]

What time frame was the gun a more preferable weapon then melee weapons?

The last new pattern of sword intended for use in battle of which I am aware was issued to British heavy cavalry regiments in 1908.

The last bayonet charge by a battalion or larger unit of which I am aware took place during the German landings on Crete in 1941. It was successful.

Regards,


Agback

 

[Ferret]

A question is four painfully unexplanitory parts, by Ferret

I'm asking this because I want to write up a character for V:TM (pre-gehenna), and I want him to use a sword, I want to know aty what period of his embrace would he still be using/carring a sword.

That aside 1800's they carried sword, did you say? And 1900's they didn't? Good enough for me.

 

[ledded]

weren't those used more on prisoners than combatants?

There were cases of Japanese officers and NCO's using their swords on occasion in close combat, and even historical note of small units of japanese soldiers charging chinese positions armed only with the sword. Almost all of them died of course, though if only a couple made it into a trench or position it was total chaos.

 

[Dogbrain]

This suggests that swords might have been a precursor to the entrenching tool.

Not in the least. The ancestor of the entrenching tool was the government-issued infantry axe of the 18th century (often mistakenly called a "tomohawk" due to superficial resemblance to North American Indian axes). This hatchet had a blade broad enough for digging, a back stout enough for pounding, and was (and still is) a very useful all-around camp tool. By the time this item was an issue item, swords had long since been abandoned by infantry except for a few freakshows (Highlanders).

 

[Krieg]

There were cases of Japanese officers and NCO's using their swords on occasion in close combat, and even historical note of small units of japanese soldiers charging chinese positions armed only with the sword. Almost all of them died of course, though if only a couple made it into a trench or position it was total chaos.

You know that doesn't exactly help the "still effective" argument!

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I'd say the real clincher was cartridge ammunition, the point at which the firearm was not only clearly superior, but also easily adopted by anyone.

Not just trained professionals.

Personally, I'd say near the end of the 1800's, just post-Civil War, especially since your character concept seems to be more a civilian than a soldier.

A part of me says a proper Scotsman could hold onto his sword well after that, simply as a matter of pride.

You might find the following useful:

http://www.badaxegames.com/mm/pdf/gt_web_firearms_a_primer.pdf


Wulf