When you add class levels to a monster....

[Piratecat]

.... do they get the 4x skill points as soon as they add their first class level, just as if they were a 1st level PC?

For instance, would a hill giant sorcerer 1 (with, say, a 10 int) get an additional (2x4 = 8) skill points?

I assume so, but I wanted to doublecheck. Thanks!

 

[Caliber]

Hey P'Cat!

It depends on the Creature you are adding Class Levels to, I believe. If the Creature only has 1 HD (and thus replaces that HD with Class HD) then you quadruple the starting Skill points.

If instead the Creature starts with some HD (like your Hill Giant) I believe the starting skill points are NOT quadrupled.

But thats just me. You can check here Soladrin's ECL Page . For some good info on things like this.

Bye!

 

[AGGEMAM]

Caliber is correct.

Generally monsters with 1 HD substitute their 'monster racial class level' with a regular class level.

And monsters with more than 1 HD have 'monster racial class levels' which pretty much works like a prestige class and are therefore not considered to actually start at 1st level.

Of course, there could be exceptions that I am unaware of.

 

[CRGreathouse]

It depends on the Creature you are adding Class Levels to, I believe. If the Creature only has 1 HD (and thus replaces that HD with Class HD) then you quadruple the starting Skill points.

If instead the Creature starts with some HD (like your Hill Giant) I believe the starting skill points are NOT quadrupled.

Correct. Racial hit dice replace x4 skill points; if it doesn't have racial HD, it gets x4 skill points.

 

[Piratecat]

Thanks; I've been doing it wrong! Much appreciated, guys.

 

[coyote6]

This is a bit of a bad deal for any creature (at least the non-outsider, non-dragon creatures) with more than 1 HD that takes a class. Especially rogues -- a bugbear rogue 1 is going to be a poorer rogue than a kobold rogue 1, even with the bugbear's racial HD skill points & racial skill bonus (32 skill points for the kobold vs. 8 skill pts & a +4 to a skill for the bugbear). Nevermind that the bugbear is at least ECL 4, and that the equivalent kobold rogue 4 would have 56 skill pts.

IMO, they probably should get x4 skill points for that first character class level.

Otherwise, they get the shaft!

 

[Crothian]

It's a wierd ruling. I'd think it would be because of balance, but isn't that what the ECL is for? Does anyone know why this is?

 

[protheus]

Depend on how you play monstrous race.

In my case most of the basic monster such; goblin, hobgoblin, gnoll, bugbear ect.. I dont use the ECL, but i gave them there "base" bonus, such; Alertness for goblins, hobgoblins and power attack for gnoll.

Those are not a great power and those caracter usually got a fair caracteristic modifier.

But in the case of a giant (i can be wrong) but they get something like a +10 str, +6 con, -4 dex and maybe some other buff, i find these too strong i would impose the ECL. but otherwise.... DM discression

 

[Artoomis]

Reason?

How about they already have skill points if they have monster HD? Is that right? If so, that's why, because they are not starting with class levels, they already have monster "levels."

 

[protheus]

By thinking of it.

Monsters in the MM ,IMO, are usualy part of community so they have learn they way of fighting, knowledge.... in this case there basic bonus.... but take a monster such the gnoll

Medium-Size Humanoid (Gnoll) (ok)
Hit Dice: 2d8+2 (11 hp) (Basic gnoll warrior training)
Initiative: +0 (ok)
Speed: 20 ft. (scale mail), base 30 ft. (ok)
AC: 17 (+1 natural, +4 scale, +2 large shield) (ok)
Attacks: Battleaxe +3 melee; or shortbow +1 ranged (ok)
Damage: Battleaxe 1d8+2; or shortbow 1d6 (ok)
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft. (Depend)
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft. (ok)
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +0, Will +0 (Depend)
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 10, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 11, Cha 8 (Can be reroll)
Skills: Listen +3, Spot +3 (Can be taken out)
Feats: Power Attack (Racial feat)

So here what would like a gnoll with no ECL

Medium-Size Humanoid (Gnoll)
Hit Dice: By Class
Initiative: +0
Speed: base 30 ft.
AC: 11 (+1 natural)
Attacks: By Weapon
Damage: By Weapon
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft.
Saves: By Class
Abilities: Str +4, Dex 0, Con +2, Int -2, Wis 0, Cha -2
Skills: Listen +3, Spot +3 (racial)
Feats: Power Attack (racial)

Would this race would be more powerfull that the human (Bonus feat, bonus skill) or elf (bonus listen, spot, will save)