When you want to strangle a player

[wolff96]

The main reason I wanted to post was just to express my condolences about the situation. It sounds like a really good game -- one that I would enjoy playing in. And to have him causing so much havoc because he's unhappy... ouch. Doubly bad because of your friendship being jeopardized.

He keeps comparing how powerful his shaman is in Shadowrun to his bard and of course the bard comes up lacking. His shaman was powerful from day 1. I play Shadowrun as well and it is a very different system it is much easier to get successes with having a palm full of dice as well as karma to spend to reroll failures.

Yeah, if he's comparing a Shadowrun caster to a low-level D&D bard... You're never going to get through to him. Sorry.

I like the idea of letting him use bardic knowledge for some of the skills.

Just a quick comment -- you might also want to look at the "Bardic Knack" replacement ability. PHB II, I think... It allows a bard to at least be competent at most anything he cares to try. Combined with the "Jack of all Trades" feat (so you can try trained-only skills untrained), it really does make a bard have some crazy versatility in skills.

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Final thought: Whatever you do, don't allow gestalt characters as a novice DM. They're tough enough to run a game with when you're experienced!

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

You said this your first time DMing.

Was this problem player mainly GM in the past? I find many of the worst players out there are former DM/GMs (FDMs), especially those who held the role almost exclusively. They tend to have a hard time dealing with not having full control or being in the spotlight all the time. Each player has his or her time in the spotlight, some even try to hog it, but the DM in his role as MC is always standing there right next to the player in the spotlight. Some FDMs react to the loss of control by running every decision their DM makes through a filter based on how they would have ruled and become very argumentative when a decision is made against their character in a way they wouldn't have ruled. Others lose focus on the game because their attention isn't constantly drawn into it as when they DMed (I'm guilty of this). The player may just be bitter that his current life issues keep him from doing what he would really like to be doing: GMing. And you're just the unlucky DM to be in the path of his downward spiral.

What can you do? Gamewise - Nothing. Stop coddling him and run the game fairly for all involved. Personally - Continue being a good friend. Ask him why the venue change is so important. Maybe he feels that he could lessen his life burdens by playing at his house. You said you drive him and his wife and that you all chip in for gas? Maybe he and his wife are feeling a financial crunch right now and feel resentful that you are asking for gas money. And they could be too embarrased to admit they can't afford to keep chipping in. Hard to say, because sometimes even the best of friends won't tell you everything that is bothering them.

 

[WayneLigon]

He played a lot of 1E back in college. He has only played in two 3.0 games and this is first 3.5 game. He has been playing mainly Hero System, Shadowrun and Rune Quest.

I thought that might be the case; all of those have a vastly flatter power curve than D&D does. I think explaining that to him might help alleviate some of the in-game stress or get him to thinking about how he's going to advance his PC instead of being bitter about being low level. Or it might simply convince him that D&D is not the game for him, in which case he should GM something for y'all.

 

[The Eternal GM]

It does sound like Mr. Bard has a lot on his plate in real life. But I'm not sympathetic to him bringing them to the table. As I say often enough for it to be carved in stone "We all have real life concerns, some more than others. None of them should ruin a social event like gaming."

My suggestion?

Just talk to him, see if he has calmed down and chilled out any. If he hasn't, decide what is really more important for the group... It might just come down to saying "While we're playing D&D, you might want to skip our sessions and do something else." I understand this doesn't help Mr. Bard's wife any, but I can't think of much that will. Maybe tie-up the D&D game fairly quickly and move onto something else he prefers.

If he has calmed down, offer him a free shot at re-tooling his character. From scratch. If he feels it'll help and appease him, it might be worth it. I'll be honest and say he IS being childish and egotistical, but if you want to keep gaming with him and keep the peace socially, it can't hurt to try and accommodate him, at least as long as the other players won't mind this allowance.

No matter the guy's real life problems, there's a big difference between being a good friend and pandering to his desire for the spotlight and an easy time. If he doesn't like the challenge imposed by D&D, that is his problem and no one else's. So to me, as GM in the past it has come down to "Can we realistically work something out? No? Then I'm afraid I can only suggest you skip the next (however many) weeks of gaming until we're playing something else."

 

[Kraydak]

The way I read the rules to go from hostile to unfriendly requires a modified roll of 20 he got an 18. Also diplomacy takes a full minute that's 10 rounds. If you want to head off a fight which is what he wanted to do requires a full round action with a -10 penalty. I did not add the -10 to the roll.

The cleric of St Cuthbert was hostile from the very start which is why the roll was not enough to change his attidue. The other cleric was unfriendly so the roll even with the +2 modifier went from infriendly to indifferent.

But I played the indifferent cleric as being more open to him somewhere between indifferent and friendly.

There are behind the scenes reasons why the cleric of St Cuthbert was openly hostile to the sight of a spellscale.

Clerics of Cuthbert being KoS to spellscales is probably more than the bard's player signed up for when he asked about racial intolerances. If there is a plot point behind it, tell the player flat out that there is, and that the cleric's behaviour was completely out of line in the absence of such. A diplomacy result of 18 *isn't* generally enough to do much, but at the same time, it is far too good to result in disaster. As such, the player should be aware that this *was* explicitly a case of failure by DM fiat, due to behind the scenes plot points.

The evidence may not be good enough for court, but it should be good enough for everyone who witnessed the exchange (and have any diplomacy skills whatsoever) to know that there is something strange going on (which turns the bard's actions into a positive: evidence that the local Cuthbert church is FUBAR, which the PC cleric wouldn't have found out about).

 

[Elf Witch]

There have been some great suggestions. I took a look at Bardic Knack and I suggested he take a look at it.

I am also going to go ahead and make all skills class skills using the cap. So cross skills will only cost 1 but with the cross class limit.

I wrote him an email giving him the option to retool his character from scratch if he wants.

I also sent him the chamelon prestige class to look at.

As for the issue of the car ride. I wrote him an email reminding him that this arrangment was something we all agreed to when we started. That we are in a situation that if we say we don't want to make the drive then the other player will have to drop out. That there is really no compromise to this. I also pointed out that we had an issue if the other player dropped out of where to play. We can't play at my house because his wife is allergic to my bird and right now my dining room lights are out so there would not be enough light for his wife to see.

Their house has problems to. They don't have any kind of table we would be playing on TV trays. And their long haired cats play havoc with my roommate's asthma if she is around them to long.

We could find solutions to these issues but why when we have a a big house with a great table and good lighting and no allergy causing pets around.

I asked his wife about the gas issue and she pointed out that they make far more money than I or my roommate and the four dollars everyone chips in is a drop in the bucket for them.

She also told me that if he wants to drop out of the game she is not going to she told him this as well.

So the ball is in his court he had to decide if the trip down is to big an issue for him to overcome and if he really wants to play DnD.

 

[Elf Witch]

Clerics of Cuthbert being KoS to spellscales is probably more than the bard's player signed up for when he asked about racial intolerances. If there is a plot point behind it, tell the player flat out that there is, and that the cleric's behaviour was completely out of line in the absence of such. A diplomacy result of 18 *isn't* generally enough to do much, but at the same time, it is far too good to result in disaster. As such, the player should be aware that this *was* explicitly a case of failure by DM fiat, due to behind the scenes plot points.

The evidence may not be good enough for court, but it should be good enough for everyone who witnessed the exchange (and have any diplomacy skills whatsoever) to know that there is something strange going on (which turns the bard's actions into a positive: evidence that the local Cuthbert church is FUBAR, which the PC cleric wouldn't have found out about).

I don't think so. I have played in several of his games and in them he puts a lot of racial intolrence in them. He enjoys things like that.

I did tell him when he asked why is this cleric so hostile instead of just unfriendly that there was something going on. I did not tell him why because he has not found out yet but one of the factions trying to destablize things by making the churches go to war has leaked infomation the the church of St Cuthbert that Tiamat has made a deal with an ancient demoness.

In my game it is common knowledge that Tiamat created spellscales as servents and that a lot of them still worship her as their creator.

The cleric that he was dealing with just got infomation the night before of a group of spellscales and a red dragon that tried to open a gate to the abyssal plane. They didn't succeed because they were missing an important artifact.

I didn't use DM fiat if he had rolled better then the he would have changed the cleric's feelings.

And as I have pointed out his main goal was to stop bloodshed between the clerics and in that he succeed.

He is just unhappy because he invisioned going up using diplomacy winning both clerics over and they all parting friends after hugs all around.

 

[Dark Mistress]

I think your in a bad situation but not one of your making and the wife is in a worse one. But I do think your handling it write.

I have to agree with a few other points. It sounds like he is use to other games power curves and expects the same and has a lot of RL issues making things worse.

I would stick to what your doing and just do the best you can to accomidate him with out giving him a unfair advantage or nerfing other characters to make him happy. If that is not enough for him then maybe he needs a break from RPing to deal with issues and come back later.

 

[MithrasRahl]

There are always many sides to things, just always remember that (which you seem to be doing, having defended the player you're having problems with)

If you think about it, planned fights give warriors a chance to shine, and planned social scenes give social characters a chance to shine. The problems arise when you have unplanned encounters. In an unplanned combat encounter, all you need is the stat block, and the PCs can wreck stuff up. In an unplanned social encounter, a DM might not react in the "right" way because he is doing it on the fly, which can be frustrating for social characters.

Ultimately I also tell people to make a battle character first, and whatever else you want second.

As for your problem player, do you guys have a close mutual friend who is also gaming that you could have take him aside sometime during the week and talking things out with him?

 

[Oryan77]

If you bend the rules or customize rules just to help out his PC, he will expect that to happen again & again for any future characters and when he levels up. He'll take advantage of your generosity. I've had players do this to me and now I stick to the rules from the books. I don't make custom items for people anymore, nor do I allow them to swap abilities or skills for other ones unless there's a rule in the book for that.

Never cater to whiney players or they'll make you regret it.

At least you know that his wife will keep playing if he quits. You've gone above & beyond to try and please him so far and he still causes you grief. Just stick to your guns and run things the way you want to run it so you will be happy. If he quits it will be his own decision.

I've had couples in our game that said when the other left, he'll stick around. They'll play maybe 1 or 2 sessions without their partner and then they never show up again. Hopefully that won't happen with your group.