Where are the Unarmed Combat rules?

[Shroomy]

Unarmed strikes are considered weapons, so they are usable with exploits. The only problem is that they are sub-optimal when compared with other PC choices due to the lack of proficiency bonus and because of the paltry damage (1d4+Strength). But in a pinch, yeah, that'll work.

 

[Particle_Man]

One nice thing. If your hands are otherwise full (holding the rescued but unconscious princess) you can still kick as an unarmed attack.

 

[Kraydak]

I was actually thinking more about using bastard swords 2handed on *my* turn (for damage) and 1handed on *your* turn for two weapon defense.

Oh, thats just special. Two-weapon fighting/defense do not require you to be *wielding* your weapons, but merely to be holding them.

 

[Shroomy]

I was actually thinking more about using bastard swords 2handed on *my* turn (for damage) and 1handed on *your* turn for two weapon defense.

Oh, thats just special. Two-weapon fighting/defense do not require you to be *wielding* your weapons, but merely to be holding them.

Sounds cool. I can definitely envision using your hand/arm and a sword defensively.

 

[pukunui]

I would very quickly house rule that fighting unarmed against an armed opponent grants combat advantage. It doesn't make sense that picking up a crowbar in a brawl would grant you absolutely no advantage. Combat advantage is simple, quick, fun for rogues.

I would probably house rule that unarmed does not count as using a weapon unless you take the proficiency feat. So people that are trained in unarmed combat can use their weapon specific powers and no longer grant combat advantage. Is this too complicated? I mean come on, its like learning the alphabet compared to 3e...

Yeah that works. And you can add some feats to help. I was thinking of using something similar to the Martial Arts feats from SWSE but toned down (since 4e feats are all pretty toned down).

So maybe Martial Arts I would grant a +2 proficiency bonus with unarmed attacks and make it so you don't grant combat advantage. Then Martial Arts II would increase your unarmed damage by one die. You could take Martial Arts II multiple times and increase your damage by one die each time.

How does that sound? Perhaps I could come up with some better names for the feats, though ...


I like the idea of someone grabbing a large trout and laying about with it, though. That would be fun.

 

[Witchfinder General]

Unarmed strikes are considered weapons, so they are usable with exploits. The only problem is that they are sub-optimal when compared with other PC choices due to the lack of proficiency bonus and because of the paltry damage (1d4+Strength). But in a pinch, yeah, that'll work.

Barstomun Strongbeard, the dwarf pugilst in Fallcrest (DMG p. 200), has a basic fist attack that does d6 damage. His Quick Punch is impressive (minor action). I hope to see feats and powers that give PCs similar options in the Martial Power book later this year.

 

[RefinedBean]

The only problem I see with the Combat Advantage being granted by the unarmed opponent is that it doesn't seem to fit every situation, i.e.

Freddy Fighter is minding his own business when a drunk farmer attacks him in a bar. The drunk farmer hefts his hoe, while Freddy, who's been a trained Fighter for years now, wants nothing to do with the farmer...but since the farmer's blocking the only way out, he has no choice to lay him out with his fists.

Something like that. Why would a drunken farmer, although armed, cause Freddy to grant combat advantage?

Also, are enemies without arms considered unarmed? Not being snarkey, there, but it all depends on where we draw the line. Mainly, it'll be DM discretion, but we ARE trying to simplify things.

 

[erik_the_guy]

Yeah that works. And you can add some feats to help. I was thinking of using something similar to the Martial Arts feats from SWSE but toned down (since 4e feats are all pretty toned down).

So maybe Martial Arts I would grant a +2 proficiency bonus with unarmed attacks and make it so you don't grant combat advantage. Then Martial Arts II would increase your unarmed damage by one die. You could take Martial Arts II multiple times and increase your damage by one die each time.

How does that sound? Perhaps I could come up with some better names for the feats, though ...


I like the idea of someone grabbing a large trout and laying about with it, though. That would be fun.

As far as the feat goes, weapon proficiency (unarmed) would cause the character to gain the +2 proficiency bonus, and allow his unarmed attacks to be considered weapons.
A feat to increase the die sized of unarmed attacks would be broken if you could take it multiple times to stack it. Maybe allow it to be taken once, increasing the damage die to a D6, but this will probably become obsolete when monks come out.

 

[erik_the_guy]

The only problem I see with the Combat Advantage being granted by the unarmed opponent is that it doesn't seem to fit every situation, i.e.

Freddy Fighter is minding his own business when a drunk farmer attacks him in a bar. The drunk farmer hefts his hoe, while Freddy, who's been a trained Fighter for years now, wants nothing to do with the farmer...but since the farmer's blocking the only way out, he has no choice to lay him out with his fists.

Something like that. Why would a drunken farmer, although armed, cause Freddy to grant combat advantage?

Also, are enemies without arms considered unarmed? Not being snarkey, there, but it all depends on where we draw the line. Mainly, it'll be DM discretion, but we ARE trying to simplify things.

Yes, the farmer gets combat advantage against the fighter. Since the farmed probably has at most +1 STR mod, and a penalty for being drunk, the farmer will likely still have a negative modifier to hit, while the fighter will probably be at around +3 to hit for 1d4+3 damage, even at level one. The farmer is probably considered a minion (1HP), while the fighter has around 30 at level 1. It makes sense, the minor advantages are more than overcome by the drunkenness and Freddy being a fighter, so my idea doesn't lack playability in this situation.

Also I would grant Freddy combat advantage against a drunken opponent.

 

[Contents May Vary]

I'm not sure if being "unarmed" is supposed to work with weapon-keyword exploits.

Happily, the rules explicitly allow that. PHB pg 66, col 1:

"Many martial powers, as well as several divine powers, can be used only if you’re wielding a weapon. (You can use an unarmed attack as your weapon.)"