D&D 5E Where are the whaling vessels? (A.k.a. material for big spenders)

[delericho]

Catering to whales is for theme parks and casinos. If you want to see where that thinking gets you, look to the constant "collectable" limited-release churn that Games Workshop is going through trying to chase whale tail. It's almost to the point that the whales are all that's left...

I believe the OP's argument wasn't that they should go after whales to the exclusion of minnows and dolphins, but rather that they should try going after them in addition.

 

[Leatherhead]

I would like to point out that people are quite repulsed by this sort of whaling practice in the games industry.

However, WoTC is doing this kind of thing, they have simply set the bar lower in order to facilitate their goal of a unifying edition that builds a big player base. Creating product that less than 5% of the customers will ever use is less than ideal, simply due to the nature of D&D being a communal game.

For instance: The Temple of Elemental Evil.
You have the free update to rules that all the players can download.
There are the books for people to buy into it.
Then you have the minis, the board game, and even the MMO tie in.

The pyramid is all there, it's just has a shorter peak.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I think the real money is in the Dolphins, at least if you care about sustaining the brand. Its what Paizo is doing, releasing multiple products per month, with a low enough price point where adventures or mini splats are basically impulse buys. DM's do the bulk of the buying, as they get the core books, then minis, maps, adventures, etc. The issue isn't that there's no $10,000 beholder statue for some rich guy to buy, its that there's NOTHING for Joe Average DM to buy to help run his game.

And assuming that gaming stores help keep/retain players, what do you think they'll steer new players towards? The game with a paltry 3 book footprint or the one that keeps churning out product to encourage (or hell, at least enable!) repeat purchases. I think it would be in WOTC's best interest to get out some short $12 - 15 adventures quickly.

Yup, the more I thought about it even as I was writing the OP, the more it became obvious that it's the dolphins that are not being fished rather than the whales. Whales probably wouldn't go to WotC anyway. But Dolphins are where you make most of your money at mass market level, and there's precious little for us either.

Problem is that there's no (Hasbro-scale) money in such things. Though if they would get the OGL issue sorted...

Hasbro are capable of reading a profit/loss statement as well as anyone else. And low profit isn't something they care about either way. Loss and lack of income? That's an issue.

 

[Blackwarder]

Meanwhile from ign: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?418287-Storm-Coast-Legends

Warder

 

[Neonchameleon]

Yay. And that actually looks as if they are trying something interesting in video games.

 

[neobolts]

The question of "where do we go from here?" is one that WotC most likely DOES have an answer for... but they're just not telling YOU what it is.

Sorry... but you're an Infrared citizen and the folks in the WotC office have a clearance level of Green or Blue. So you don't get to know what's going on and they don't care if you're baffled by it. So just take your Happy Pills and you'll be fine.

This gets to the heart of the issue that is in so many of these threads. I want to know the plan and I want them to want me to know the plan.

The issue is not them having a plan, it's an issue of communicating that plan to their core fanbase. To be fair, WotC hasn't been totally silent on the issue (i.e. they want less splat book bloat, they are exploring possible digital tools), but there is a nebulous feeling that they aren't bringing us along for the ride nearly as much as they could be. For me, the lack of a magazine and the recently ending article hiatus added to the feeling.

I'm going to make two fairly subjective comparisons, so bear with me. First, some of my players are in more than one TRPG game a week (the other(s) being Pathfinder games). Listening to them talk, they seem to be getting an endless stream of product announcements, tidbits, and playtest materials. Second, the MCU (Marvel Cinematic Universe) is another geek property I'm amped about, and I feel like I know exactly what they are doing for the next 5 years and get constant content from them (Agent Carter into Agents of Shield into Daredevil into Avengers: Age of Ultron, etc).

 

[fjw70]

I think WotC has finally decided there isn't enough money to be made from whales in the RPG industry. There investment money is best spent elsewhere.

Paizo on the other hand is probably doing Pathfinder largely as a labor of love. Lisa Stevens seems like a pretty smart woman and could probably make even more money in another industry, but she loves gaming and does pretty well there so she stays.

Hasbro/WotC is there to make money for the shareholders and if only doing minimal support for the D&D RPG is good business then that is what they will do.

i also wonder how the D&D as a brand thing is going. It doesn't look like the Kre-o stuff did that well. My local TRU had it on clearance shortly after it came out and I haven't seen it around since.

 

[delericho]

I think WotC has finally decided there isn't enough money to be made from whales in the RPG industry. There investment money is best spent elsewhere.

The only problem I have with that theory is this: if there isn't enough money for Hasbro to be interested in the line, why spend two years (and goodness knows how much money) on developing a whole new edition?

Though I suppose it's just about possible Mearls (or someone else) could have persuaded them it's worth it for one last, big payday.

('Big' relative to D&D sales, obviously. )

 

[Beleriphon]

i also wonder how the D&D as a brand thing is going. It doesn't look like the Kre-o stuff did that well. My local TRU had it on clearance shortly after it came out and I haven't seen it around since.

I think that's an issue with Kree-O rather than D&D though.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The only problem I have with that theory is this: if there isn't enough money for Hasbro to be interested in the line, why spend two years (and goodness knows how much money) on developing a whole new edition?

I think the RPG industry does have whales.

I just think those whales are the people who buy three core books and maybe an adventure or two...and then maybe play some video games or something. The dolphins are the people who read novels or play games, but who don't buy or play the RPG.

Plus, there's a hard limit on what RPG stuff you can actually use. If I have a group of 6 people, even if we play on a weekly basis, with the DMG, the MM, and the PHB, I have more material than I will need in years of D&D gameplay. I'm only going to use 5 races and 5 classes until I reboot the campaign in 9 months to a year, so why sell me more races and more classes? I've got more than 1,000 monsters of which maybe half will see the light of day in my campaign, so those extra monsters aren't really going to get used, either. I've got all the magic items I need right there in front of me, and plenty of advice on how to make more. Selling more RPG stuff isn't going to benefit the hardcore RPG player, and it might actually damage the RPG as a whole with bloat and complexity that create a barrier for newbies to enter.

So RPG books aren't what you sell to the RPG whales.

Maybe you sell them video games, or board games, or card games, or novels, or comic books, or whatever, but that's dolphin territory...

IMO, the thing holding back D&D there is generally that, aside from games, their stuff has a reputation for not being very high quality. Muddy, lethargic video games, pulpy novels re-hashing the same ancient, tired characters...there's exceptions, absolutely, but not enough to change that perception. They need good branded product if they want the demanding whales to be appeased. They seem to be doing OK with board games, and there's possible change on the horizon for the other stuff.

Unless WotC can figure out how to sell me more hours in a week to play D&D at a table with friends (which is THE BEST D&D), it's hard to figure out what would sell to a whale like me.