D&D General where did the gods come from?

[EzekielRaiden]

got to ask what is your faith as I can't think of one like that easily.

look for an origin to gods you need the core eldest to be axioms the reality is based on and flow down from there.

I'm Christian (Foursquare Pentecostal, to be precise.) My God is Love, with a very specific definition thereof:
"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. [...] And now these three remain: Faith, Hope, and Love. But the greatest of these is Love." (1st Corinthians 13:4-8, 13, NIV)

I'm afraid I rarely manage to live up to that standard myself. But I won't stop trying.

And yes, I really do genuinely believe that that unconditional, invincible Love is the most fundamental axiom of existence. (Should you wish to discuss it further we can do so in PMs.)

 

[dave2008]

I'm Christian (Foursquare Pentecostal, to be precise.) My God is Love, with a very specific definition thereof:
"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. [...] And now these three remain: Faith, Hope, and Love. But the greatest of these is Love." (1st Corinthians 13:4-8, 13, NIV)

I'm afraid I rarely manage to live up to that standard myself. But I won't stop trying.

Those are good words to live by regardless of religion. I know that is basically how I try to live and view the world and I'm an atheist!

 

[cbwjm]

Always existed. The idea that gawds need worshipers to be batteries always turned me off.

That always turned me off as well. The term "gawds" is also a turn-off.

 

[cbwjm]

DnD is weird in that the gods, at least some of them, have always existed and created their followers but then they need belief to exist so it ends up a chicken or the egg situation.

At least in Theros they have a setting where the gods exist specifically because of the belief of mortals, and in at least one of the short stories the god of mysteries admits that other gods have existed in Theros before the current set as he's seen them rise up and fade away.

I'm not sure how much 5e follows the previous set-up where gods can't exist without the faith of their followers though.

In my current setting faith doesn't matter for the gods, they exist without need of the faith of their followers instead being empowered by fundamental aspects of reality so wiping out the followers of a god won't affect their power.

 

[Mad_Jack]

Historically, the answer to that question has been highly variable throughout the various campaign worlds and editions, and sometimes even different from one god to the next in the same setting.

On a tangent, I once ran a cleric who was completely delusional and worshipped a god that didn't actually exist, but his personal faith, however misguided, was so strong it was actually powering his spells.

 

[Hex08]

When a mommy god and a daddy god love each other....

In my settings I generally have them having always existed, but I think being created by belief is a perfectly fine and could probably lead to some interesting stories to base a campaign around.

 

[Minigiant]

Always existed. The idea that gawds need worshipers to be batteries always turned me off.

I usually see it as the other way around.

Gods don't need worshippers. Worshippers just power them up and give them death saves against divine god killer BS.

Gods who have pretermined deaths or other ways to power themselves don't need worshippers. That's why Gods of Lore, Magic, Mystery, Fate, or Secrets don't stress having churches.

 

[Chaosmancer]

if gods need us for fuel it is kind of not a god, I have heard of no real-world faith that operates of it. gods normally are, it would be like if we need to worship gravity for it to work it stops being fundamental and becomes contingent.

gods often eat in myth but normally super special stuff that grants great ability if eaten by mortals but not gods needing morals for much even the mexica gods who need human blood have it more for a boost and not a fundamental to their being.

I suppose this gets into the question of "what is a god" then.

Now, I will admit it may not have been clear that I was combining some concepts in my initial post, so let me first go ahead and make explicitly sure to decouple them. Many real-world mythologies involve the food of the Gods being special. For example, in the Norse Pantheon the Aesir and the Vanir eat the Apples of Idun, which restore their youth and vitality. Without the Apples, the gods would die of old age and sickness. In fact, when they lost access to the Apples, they quickly began to age. Similar stories revolve around Ambrosia from Ancient Greece which in the Illiad is used by Hera and allowed her to "cleansed all defilement from her lovely flesh", Peaches of Immortality from Chinese Myth cover again a similar vein. Now, not all godly power derives from these foods, but the immortality of the gods does, and that is a key point for many on "what is a god".

Now, I have read many stories that take that concept and combine it with another concept. Particularly in Japanese myth, but I believe also in Hindu belief, the food ritually offered at shrines is considered empowered by the faith of those offering it, and becomes the food of the gods. This could have also been a Sumerian belief, but I'm really out of touch with my Sumerian mythology research. And so some people in various stories have stated that it is faith that powers these foods, and therefore faith which grants immortality to the gods.

I also find your mention of gravity as... not quite accurate. You can't stab gravity, but you can stab the Gods. In fact, in the Illiad, Aphrodite is wounded by a spear thrown by Diomedes. You can also bind the Gods, as Hera was famously bound multiple times in Greek Myths (once from Golden Chains in the heavens for betraying Zeus, once in a throne forged for her by Hephaestus, and I believe a third time). The concept of Gravity might not need worship to continue, but it also cannot be "killed". Yet, the Gods can be killed, injured, bound, ect so therefore it could be that they need sustenance to continue, and that sustenance could be special because it is powered by Faith.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I suppose this gets into the question of "what is a god" then.

Now, I will admit it may not have been clear that I was combining some concepts in my initial post, so let me first go ahead and make explicitly sure to decouple them. Many real-world mythologies involve the food of the Gods being special. For example, in the Norse Pantheon the Aesir and the Vanir eat the Apples of Idun, which restore their youth and vitality. Without the Apples, the gods would die of old age and sickness. In fact, when they lost access to the Apples, they quickly began to age. Similar stories revolve around Ambrosia from Ancient Greece which in the Illiad is used by Hera and allowed her to "cleansed all defilement from her lovely flesh", Peaches of Immortality from Chinese Myth cover again a similar vein. Now, not all godly power derives from these foods, but the immortality of the gods does, and that is a key point for many on "what is a god".

Now, I have read many stories that take that concept and combine it with another concept. Particularly in Japanese myth, but I believe also in Hindu belief, the food ritually offered at shrines is considered empowered by the faith of those offering it, and becomes the food of the gods. This could have also been a Sumerian belief, but I'm really out of touch with my Sumerian mythology research. And so some people in various stories have stated that it is faith that powers these foods, and therefore faith which grants immortality to the gods.

I also find your mention of gravity as... not quite accurate. You can't stab gravity, but you can stab the Gods. In fact, in the Illiad, Aphrodite is wounded by a spear thrown by Diomedes. You can also bind the Gods, as Hera was famously bound multiple times in Greek Myths (once from Golden Chains in the heavens for betraying Zeus, once in a throne forged for her by Hephaestus, and I believe a third time). The concept of Gravity might not need worship to continue, but it also cannot be "killed". Yet, the Gods can be killed, injured, bound, ect so therefore it could be that they need sustenance to continue, and that sustenance could be special because it is powered by Faith.

binding hera does not seem to turn off all the things she is in charge of closer to resisting gravity than anything else.
Also, most of those are gods doing it to each other, which is a more open area than humans stop caring, so now there are no gods.

it is fair to make gods vulnerable but gods fading with out worship feels like a left over from when lots of people had the magical die-off from their setting at some point.

 

[Fifinjir]

that world gets nightmarish fast not just from the childhood monsters.

Yep, some of my favorite horror stories attest to that.