Where do summoned monsters come from and what are they doing before being summoned?

[dead]

Remember the Planescape description?

If a Prime cast a summon monster spell from the Material Plane, and you were on the Outer Planes just before the monster got whisked away, you'd see a crystal bead speeding through the air towards the target.

I remember the book said, watch out if you see a flying crystal bead honing in on you. But really, in the infinite multiverse, how likely is that YOU will be subject to someone's summon spell?

 

[Sejs]

Being a prime would be just as bad as you could be summoned TO the outer planes. Just think of the situation where you're in the middle of an important battle, about to cast harm on the BBEG.

Then, poof, you're in Avernus looking at two dozen manes and some rutterkin. And they all look hungry. Looking back to find a good escape route, you see an Erinyes give you a sly smile and points you back towards the demons. You vow to get a permanent dimensional anchor cast upon yourself as you feel urged into a battle you can't win.

Actually, funny thing. Get this.

You're Woodroe Wizard, and your good friend Twiggy the Tiefling Paladin has been kidnapped by Bloodlord Brutus Elf-Grinder. BBE-G is going to use poor Twiggy in some evil ritual that will draw out her soul while leaving her demonic taint intact, such that her taint will fester and grow inside her to fill the now vacant soul-space, thus turning the once saintly Twiggy into an Unholy Engine of Destuction with the ability to manifest Naughty Tentacles at will. Or, at least, so you read in his diary. Also, he's got a big crush on the girl that serves coffee in the Fortress of Woe cafeteria but is too shy to approach her.


Aha! But wait! Woodroe Wizard just happens to be keen on conjuration, and knows the Planar Binding spell. And Twiggy's tiefling-ness means that she's an Outsider, and thus a valid target for the spell. Not only that, but you already know her name, so you don't risk getting some other female tiefling paladin - bonus! A quick binding circle later, Woodroe casts his spell and all of a sudden Twiggy disappears off the Bleak Alter of Naughtyness and appears in Woodroe's basement with a bamph. A handy rescue and you didn't even have to storm the castle and get your good clothes all bloody to do it!

^_^

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Unless you're using the Individual Summoned Monsters varient, then summoned monsters actually don't really exist in physical form until they're magic'd up.

Are you sure about this? I know that the descriptions of many outsiders observe -- or at least used to observe -- that they're lothe to use their summon whatever ability because they don't like incurring debts.

If the creature they're summoning isn't real, why should they worry about being indebted?

 

[Darklone]

Because the guy who wrote that description didn't think about it ?

 

[reanjr]

Actually, funny thing. Get this.

You're Woodroe Wizard, and your good friend Twiggy the Tiefling Paladin has been kidnapped by Bloodlord Brutus Elf-Grinder. BBE-G is going to use poor Twiggy in some evil ritual that will draw out her soul while leaving her demonic taint intact, such that her taint will fester and grow inside her to fill the now vacant soul-space, thus turning the once saintly Twiggy into an Unholy Engine of Destuction with the ability to manifest Naughty Tentacles at will. Or, at least, so you read in his diary. Also, he's got a big crush on the girl that serves coffee in the Fortress of Woe cafeteria but is too shy to approach her.


Aha! But wait! Woodroe Wizard just happens to be keen on conjuration, and knows the Planar Binding spell. And Twiggy's tiefling-ness means that she's an Outsider, and thus a valid target for the spell. Not only that, but you already know her name, so you don't risk getting some other female tiefling paladin - bonus! A quick binding circle later, Woodroe casts his spell and all of a sudden Twiggy disappears off the Bleak Alter of Naughtyness and appears in Woodroe's basement with a bamph. A handy rescue and you didn't even have to storm the castle and get your good clothes all bloody to do it!

^_^

Ah, but she would have to be an extraplanar outsider, would she not? Most likely she's native. Although you could always cast a Plane Shift spell to hop over to Celestia briefly before summoning her.

One more thing, don't those spells use True Names? If so, True Names aren't the same as given names.

Altogether very creative use for the system, though. If all angles were looked at and covered, I'd probably allow it.

 

[dcollins]

Are you sure about this?

I agree with you. The "summoned monsters are templates" is a possibly-convenient interpretation that can't actually be found in the rules.

The PHB actually has this to say about summoning, from the Magic chapter, under "Schools of Magic: Conjuration: Summoning":

Summoning: The spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from... [if killed] It is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again.

So the rulebook actually talks about "bringing" and "sending" a creature, not creating a copy on the fly. Furthermore, after being "killed" it actually spends time reforming in its original location, wherever that was.

I think I would like the "creates a copy" interpretation, because it has a lot of advantages, but it's just not in the actual core rulebooks.

 

[Pyrex]

Given that there are no lasting effects to the summoned creature, I've always figured the effect most closely resembled an inverted Astral Projection spell. (i.e. Summon Monster V causes a Celestial Griffon who apparently has nothing better to do to Astrally Project to your location).

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I agree that it is not RAW, but I also prefer the "quick & dirty photocopy of the Platonic ideal of creature X" route for summoning.

The short durations make sense because the material of the copy is not magically stable. The issue with outsiders is that there is a tradition of summonings being restricted embodiments of forces of the universe (elementals, devils, nature spirits and other microdeities) and outsiders sort of fit the bill within D&D cosmology. This model is easily stretched to include celestial badgers.

If you want to do the other funky stuff, you should really use a Calling.

 

[Kemrain]

Actually, funny thing. Get this.
..Snip..
^_^

And, assuming this worked, what's to keep your shy BBE-G from simply summoning Twiggy back? Suddenly I fear for my Half-Succubus char. Hope my GM never reads this thread. Hope her truename never gets out.

- Kemrain the Trans-Dimentionally Afraid.

 

[The Iron Mark]

One more thing, don't those spells use True Names? If so, True Names aren't the same as given names.

No such thing as True Names in the core rules .

And on the outsider bit, myabe they mean creatures like Demons and Devil who can summon others of thier kind?